Please take a look at this steering geometry - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > Please take a look at this steering geometry

FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye KitThe Original 3/8" Ruffstuff Diff Cover!Building a Bumper?

Reply
Unread 05-12-2011, 12:16 AM   #1
alex_c
Registered User
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 528
Please take a look at this steering geometry

A good buddy of mine is having some issues with the tie rod end contacting the steering stabilizer bolt while turning. He recently installed a high pinion D30 and the problem just arose.



He has a drop pitman arm with an older 4" BDS lift with a 0.75 spacer up front. Has adjustable track bar and all control arms are adjustable.



Here is the picture of the steering geometry. On first glance the track bar and drag link angles look way out. Is it proper to draw a line bolt to bolt to measure the track bar angle, or should it be measured as is, off the longest, most angled section.



I told him to adjust his pinion angle to take care of the interference, but I wasn't sure if the steering was right, looks as if the angles are off to me.

mrblaine or Mr. Bransford...any ideas? (I'm sure you have a few )

__________________
'97 TJ Sport
33x10.5 KM2, 8.8 LSD w/discs and RHM bracket kit, HP D30 w/homemade diff armour, 4.10 gears, 2.5" junk yard lift, Rusty's 1" BL/MML, AA SYE/CV Shaft, XRC Sliders, V8 ZJ steering, CB, GPS, some other crap.
Buy it then build it, or buy it built and end up tearing it apart and building it anyway. Which one do you think is easier?
alex_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 12:19 AM   #2
Meep97
Registered User
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Cody, WY
Posts: 695
lose the drop pitman arm
Meep97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 12:24 AM   #3
cstevens
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central, Florida
Posts: 228
I might consider replacing the 4" dropped pitman arm with an OEM one. The drag link is too low on the upper end. It is my understanding that the drag link and track bar should be the same angle.
Not sure why the tie rod is is hitting though.....
__________________
Chris
W3HAP
cstevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 12:30 AM   #4
fratis
......
 
fratis's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hale'iwa, Hawai'i
Posts: 4,816
remove stabilizer bolt...
__________________
-insert meaningless out-of-place political diatribe-
fratis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 12:36 AM   #5
alex_c
Registered User
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by fratis View Post
remove stabilizer bolt...
Care to expand on that?
__________________
'97 TJ Sport
33x10.5 KM2, 8.8 LSD w/discs and RHM bracket kit, HP D30 w/homemade diff armour, 4.10 gears, 2.5" junk yard lift, Rusty's 1" BL/MML, AA SYE/CV Shaft, XRC Sliders, V8 ZJ steering, CB, GPS, some other crap.
Buy it then build it, or buy it built and end up tearing it apart and building it anyway. Which one do you think is easier?
alex_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 02:10 AM   #6
Sgt_Utz
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 854
So no one has noticed the stock tie rod that is bent in at least 3 places?

I consider this to be very dangerous. If that tie rod buckles on you on the road there's no telling which way you'll go.

I'd go back to a stock pitman arm and replace your steering setup with a currie. Once this is done, then worry about what is hitting.
Sgt_Utz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 02:15 AM   #7
alex_c
Registered User
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt_Utz View Post
So no one has noticed the stock tie rod that is bent in at least 3 places?

I consider this to be very dangerous. If that tie rod buckles on you on the road there's no telling which way you'll go.

I'd go back to a stock pitman arm and replace your steering setup with a currie. Once this is done, then worry about what is hitting.


That is the tie rod from a V8 ZJ.

I'm biting my tongue, but please only reply if you know what you are talking about.
__________________
'97 TJ Sport
33x10.5 KM2, 8.8 LSD w/discs and RHM bracket kit, HP D30 w/homemade diff armour, 4.10 gears, 2.5" junk yard lift, Rusty's 1" BL/MML, AA SYE/CV Shaft, XRC Sliders, V8 ZJ steering, CB, GPS, some other crap.
Buy it then build it, or buy it built and end up tearing it apart and building it anyway. Which one do you think is easier?
alex_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 02:40 AM   #8
fratis
......
 
fratis's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hale'iwa, Hawai'i
Posts: 4,816
many of us on oversized tires no longer use steering stabilizers.
__________________
-insert meaningless out-of-place political diatribe-
fratis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 02:46 AM   #9
RogueSpear2023
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 6,950
I would remove the drop pitman arm and see if that corrects the problem, the geometery is not right as it is, I am surprised he doesn't have bump steer as well. The adjustable track bar means nothing, if he wants to run a drop pitman arm you need to get a drop bracket for the track bar as well.
__________________
Max

2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
4.0L, 42RLE, Dual Tops, Full Doors, JKS Front Disconnects, Cragar Soft 8 Black Wheels, 33x12.5x15 Goodyear Duratracs, .75" Front Coil Spacers, Bushwacker 6" Flat Fender Flares, Skid Row Steering Box Skid, LubeLockers, Rubicon Locker Mod, OBA, Cobra 19 Ultra III CB, 3' Firestik, Rough Country 2.2 Steering Stabilizer, RC 1.25" BL, RC 1" MML, RC Grab Handles, Fog Lamp Bent Pin Mod, 4" Apline S Series Speakers, Kenwood Excelon 6.5" Speakers, 6.5" JL Audio 6W3V3 Subwoofer (in center console) w/MTX Thunder 202 amp, IPF H4 Headlight Housing, Sliverstar H4 bulbs.



TJ Tech Boot Camp
TJ Specs

"Buying a jeep and not taking it off road, is like buying a dragster and never taking it to the track"
RogueSpear2023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 04:51 AM   #10
Knuckelhead
AFSOC Retired
 
Knuckelhead's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 14,965
Bent drag link...
__________________
TSB Information: http://www.automd.com/tsb/jeep_m/wrangler_mm/2000_y/
Knuckelhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 05:40 AM   #11
Nasmith1
Registered User
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 65
after my lift was installed I also Had this problem. I was able to correct with a bolt with a smaller head and an angle grinder. hope that helps.
__________________
3 xj's - 1992 k2500 diesel - 1992 corolla (doubled my money..... after I blew it up) - 1995 yj - ***1997 Jeep TJ***
Nasmith1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 08:48 AM   #12
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,618
You all are killin' me over here.

Pitman- he shouldn't be running a drop without the bracket for the tie rod, but that said, if he does remove it, it's going to make the interference worse.

It's one of 3 things or a combination thereof-

Axle is pushed too far forward.
Draglink is unbent from smacking it into something or trying to turn left offroad with the tires pinned.
Caster is off and the axle is tipped forward which swings the trackbar mount under the axle further and then moves the draglink in tighter.

I would fix the draglink, correct the caster/pinion angle, and if it still hits, add some bend to a new set of Currie steering.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 08:49 AM   #13
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasmith1 View Post
after my lift was installed I also Had this problem. I was able to correct with a bolt with a smaller head and an angle grinder. hope that helps.
You didn't correct the problem, you only worked around the real problem.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 11:07 AM   #14
VT_Rubicon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 43
I've seen this issue on many lifted jeeps, and most people don't know they have a problem. This issue is more noticeable, if you flex the jeep up and turn the tires. I had this problem when flexed with my 3" lift, and the more I lifted my jeep; the worse it got. I also had the problem with and without a drop pitman arm.

Now that I have a 6" adjustable long arm setup, I've adjusted my caster to be ~7-8 degrees. I found this to be the best handling. As soon as I put my jeep on a lift, it was apparent that I was going to hit the stabalizer bolt head. I ground the head of the bolt down, and bought a rock crawler steering setup. The rock crawler setup (which is not my first choice), eleminates the stock Y-link. When flexed, I was still hitting part of my sway bar link mounts on the axle side, so I cut them off and made a different setup. I also shortened my wheelbase slightly with my adjustable lower arms.

In my opinion, the best solution (also the most expensive), is a high steer kit. We just installed one on a friends jeep, and all issues were solved. Different sway-bar link mounts that mount to the knuckles, drop pitman arm, new axle bracket for the track bar and sway bar, drop track bar bracket on the frame, sway bar disco's, and a high steer knuckle. His jeep handles like stock (also has a stiffer rear sway-bar) with a 6" lift. His track bar and drag link are parrallel, and flat - so he gets no bump steer.

I'm sure there's more options available, I just haven't had any experience with them. I've always wondered if the Currie steering setup had more of a bend to it to compensate for this issue??? A JK drag link has a bend in it that would accomadate this, but I doubt it's the right length. Curious to hear other comments on the issue.
VT_Rubicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2011, 01:05 PM   #15
CJ Chet
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Yorktown, Virginia
Posts: 2,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt_Utz View Post
So no one has noticed the stock tie rod that is bent in at least 3 places?

I consider this to be very dangerous. If that tie rod buckles on you on the road there's no telling which way you'll go.

I'd go back to a stock pitman arm and replace your steering setup with a currie. Once this is done, then worry about what is hitting.
Right on the money!
__________________
Beer is the answer - it doesn't matter what the question is!

'86 CJ7, 265 CI, DUI, TF999, Borla, Weber, 4" BDS Lift.
'04 AEV RUBICON.
'00 TJ Sahara.
CJ Chet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.