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Unread 08-08-2012, 08:17 AM   #586
biffgnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Well isnt that the definition of a "LCOG" build? The lowest lift height with the most ground clearance?
I think Blaine probably meant something like the lowest lift height with a minimum of 20" clearance at the belly. Now reconcile LCOG with that.

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Unread 08-08-2012, 08:23 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Well isnt that the definition of a "LCOG" build? The lowest lift height with the most ground clearance?
Somehow I don't think 20+ inches of belly clearance fits anyone's definition of LCOG.

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Thats basically what I am trying to accomplish:
Not unless you're running 40" tires.

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Id like to get it right on the first shot.
Well, I wish you the best of luck with that. I've been trying to get it right on the first shot for the last 20 rigs and each time I find a way to do something just a bit better.

Your biggest challenge will be building in uptravel or enjoying the pain of not doing so.
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Unread 08-08-2012, 08:24 AM   #588
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Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
So I guess the big question is it all worth it for either a stock lift height or mild(2-3" lift)lifted height LJ? so..................
Take a look at what I have done thus far here:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/bu...ffair-1394096/

You're kinda losing me on your "little or no lift" stance when you then mention 3" here in a lifted LJ. My rig has 3" AEV/Nth springs in it that are old and sagged a bit. I just finished my 3/4 link build for the most part, just wrapping up some loose ends and fine tuning things.

What I know thus far on my LJ is this was ABSOLUTELY worth every bit of work. I didn't label it the "bump and grind" for nothing however. I had damaged every bit of factory suspension brackets, mounts, etc. under the rig. I had damaged body mounts as well. Pretty much all factory suspension parts have been removed and I built my own in addition to the body mounts due to being too low to the ground. All my skids have been beat as well and while there, I did the gas tank tuck even further than what I already had.

All that said, look at what I did to make the suspension work with such a short spring. I wanted a 12" travel shock with at least 6" up and I got it but it wasn't exactly an "easy" or "fast" thing to get done. In addition to what I cut in the rear, I also had to cut/notch my front truss to clear the track bar mount and the oil pan and had to cut out part of the factory engine mount at the frame. My upper link is literally just below the AC compressor now at full stuff. I'm not sure how much further one could go without just going full custom and totally relocating the engine as well. I already have a 1.25" BL and 1" MML on.

The handling of the rig is hands down worlds different than it ever has been before on any prior suspension spring/shock combo I've run. Wayne's custom tune on the Fox shocks is nothing short of amazing. In addition to the greatly improved highway ride, total loss of body roll I'd been fighting all these years and have hated thus far in life, probably the biggest change I see now is the handling over rough washboard roads. I have hated washboard roads to date with a passion as they just beat the hell out of the rig. Now, I'm grinning ear to ear and mashing the pedal down just to see how fast and how firm the rig will go over them. Before, I'd constantly break the back end loose at speeds up to 25-30 mph and that was IF I could get that fast. I'd loose traction, spin tires and fish tail in addition to getting beat to death. Now, I haven't lost traction at all with the new setup yet on the same roads, haven't spun the tires and haven't fish tailed or broke the back end loose. The rig is firmly planted to the washboard yet soaking up the hits like they aren't even there. edit- to add at speeds over twice what I was doing before.

From my learning thus far, I would say it is absolutely worth while to go this far with a rig BUT you'll need to find and address exactly how much lift you want and how much shock you expect to get out of it. I'm not so sure I'm going to keep my 3" AEV springs now as I'm not real fond of the amount of drop out I have in the rear with the 12" shock. Should you decide to run a shorter 10" shock, you'd be OK with that I'd think on this height of lift but wouldn't have the travel I have with the 12's. The Currie 4" spring is well known to work well with the 12" shock travel and keep things seated at full droop and I'm seriously thinking of just going to them. It will likely change my shock travel a bit and I'll likely wind up with a bit more up than I have now but I could easily cut the lower axle mount and re-weld it a bit higher up then dial everything in from there. Other option to keep it low is cut the spring perch out and set them higher in the frame so even though it is still a 4" spring, it is set higher and thus giving a lower stance similar to what I have now, to keep the springs fully seated on the 12" shock at full droop. If you haven't gathered yet, it isn't "one" thing in general, it is the combined sum of the whole together that makes the greatest difference. The shocks however were the biggest hitter I think in my opinion.

I'm not sure what the whole "LCOG" thing is really these days. Seems everyone has their own idea. Everything on my rig is tucked as far as I can go with it without totally re-inventing the wheel and eliminating the tub yet I would never call it a "LCOG" build.

Figure out what travel you want and how much up you expect and go from there. My rig is in your 3" range but with the travel I have, I may be eventually switching to 4" springs to keep them seated at full extension with a 12" shock. Time will tell.

Best of Luck,

Mike
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Unread 08-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55willystruck View Post

I'm not sure what the whole "LCOG" thing is really these days. Seems everyone has their own idea. Everything on my rig is tucked as far as I can go with it without totally re-inventing the wheel and eliminating the tub yet I would never call it a "LCOG" build.


Best of Luck,

Mike
Haha, Im starting to get clouded on what a "LCOG" is myself......obviously Mr. Blaine and myself have potentially 2 different ideas on it. I didnt realize his own idea entails 20" belly clearance on 40" tires.....

My basic parameters for my build was to make my Jeep much more off road capable than a typical stock jeep, yet to keep its daily road manners for myself,wife and kids.

When I started doin research a few years back, I found the MC fenders and bumper setup and bought em which allowed me to run the 33's. I had people telling me to get 35's as well too, but I didnt want to go that far. I knew 35's would entail more potential "fitment/clearance" issues, were heavier, and would probably put more wear and tear on the axles and driveline due to their weight. So my first compromise was going with 33's which I will stick with.

2nd thing: The stock TC skid. I knew also needed to go, so in the end went with the ultra clearance UCF skid, gained another 3.5" in the belly......this to me was well worth it on the LJ, so Im glad I did it. I originally didnt want to do a MML or BL but did those anyway and Im glad I did since i do want to improve the up/down travel of the suspension.

3rd. Regear/locker upgrade. I have 3.73's but am regearing to either 4.10's or 4.56's with my 33" tires. Not sure what do do yet having a 6 speed manual, but I want to make sure im more capable of towing a camper behind my LJ, and have a bit better low end when in 4wd for off roading. I already ordered up a new Trutrac LSD for the rear, but and doing an electronic actuated locker in the front for my HP30 axle I have sitting in the garage.

4th: WHat Im doing now and researching, the suspension. If you can see my "direction" up above with my build you can probably see where Im going with this. Its not going to be a full on hardcore MOAB rockcrawler, but a build that is far more capable than a stock jeep for off road trail riding for up here in the northeast area on occasion while still maintaining its regular road manners.

I know Im already going with good control arms, will beef up the steering a bit etc......and will probably do a small suspension too when its all said and done, but if there are obvious ways of improving the positioning of welded brackets and perches etc whether i lift or not, that will improve geometry,articulation and up/down treavel, then Id like to pursue that.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 02:17 AM   #590
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Okay so I bought the poly kit, bought the shocks, got the wayne tune, relocated the spring buckets, but completely over looked the fact that the rear track bar mount on the frame gets in the way. Kind of upset with myself for over looking that. Does any one have any more info on how either modify the shock mount or how to make and mount a new track bar mount. Also any pros or cons to either option?


Quote:
Originally Posted by glockster View Post
The trackbar bracket may be a PITA when you outboard the shocks. Blaine and I (mostly Blaine) made a custom trackbar mount that is out of the way. Works real slick. Details are in the last few pages of my build thread.


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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post

Last edited by NizmoTJ; 10-23-2012 at 02:44 AM..
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Unread 10-23-2012, 02:40 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by NizmoTJ View Post
Okay so I bought the poly kit, bought the shocks, got the wayne tune, relocated the spring buckets, but completely over looked the fact that the rear track bar mount on the frame gets in the way. Kind of upset with myself for over looking that. Does any one have any more info on how either modify the shock mount or how to make and mount a new track bar mount. Also any pros or cons to either option?

The piece of u-channel that was cut from a piece of rectangular tubing is what I use on all of them. I leave the Poly mount long on the front side next to the spring perch and weld the outside of the new mount to it.

The forward edge at the top lines up exactly with the forward most edge of the shock/tank crossmember. You will see it when you hold the mount up there to scribe the top of it in to the shape of the frame and shock mount.

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Unread 10-23-2012, 04:42 PM   #592
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Thanks Blaine. So from the pics the trackbar mount doesnt look very secure, but I wont question that your sure that they are. Need to find some materials and then take some measurements. Confidence just took a hit until I can get soem material and see how this will mount up.

I got a two day wheeling trip in big bear this weekend. I was sure I could finish the outboard mod this week until the track bar dilemma came up. I think Im just going to wait until after the trip to start this rather then rushing to finish and possibly missing the trip because I ran into a dilemma. Not to mention that the shocks have not shown up yet, they were supposed to be here yesterday. Im sure I see them this week.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #593
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Originally Posted by NizmoTJ View Post
Thanks Blaine. So from the pics the trackbar mount doesnt look very secure, but I wont question that your sure that they are. Need to find some materials and then take some measurements. Confidence just took a hit until I can get soem material and see how this will mount up.
Stick your head under there and look at where it mounts. The two top edges of the U weld to the shock crossmember, the sides weld down and across the back of the shock mount.

It is very easily twice as strong as it was stock.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 07:00 PM   #594
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
The piece of u-channel that was cut from a piece of rectangular tubing is what I use on all of them. I leave the Poly mount long on the front side next to the spring perch and weld the outside of the new mount to it.

The forward edge at the top lines up exactly with the forward most edge of the shock/tank crossmember. You will see it when you hold the mount up there to scribe the top of it in to the shape of the frame and shock mount.

Hey Blaine, there appears to be a vertical bolt just to the inside of the horizontal mounting bolt, whats that all about? I think i remember something about this special mount from another thread a long time ago, but i cant remember where. Any other pics of this?
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #595
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Great information here, Thank you
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #596
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Excellent thread. A lot of good information, and good debates.
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Unread 07-15-2014, 08:56 AM   #597
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Great thread and I appreciate everyone's comments and input on this topic. I'm very interested in this mod, but am added a little twist that I haven't seen mentioned here yet.

I want to upright my springs and outboard my shocks (like everyone else here), but I'm also doing a stretch with a GenRight fuel tank. I'm looking at approximately 4"-5" of rear stretch. I'd prefer to stick with coils for the time being (not coilovers or air shocks). It appears from everyone's pictures that the spring gets vertical at the "peak" of the frame curvature when you slide the upper perch rearward. I presume that's with a stock wheelbase since I haven't seen mention of stretches here. If I look to move my rear axle back beyond that point to get the 4"-5" I'm needing, it means the upper perch will need to move back farther and that means it will be on the downward side of the framerail.

So ultimately, I'm asking two questions:

1) Is there enough room with this mod to accommodate the longer wheelbase? Would I need to notch the frame to move the perch back and keep the spring vertical? I've seen that done and I'm not sure I'm a fan of hacking so much frame material away.

2) Looking at the Poly outboarding kit, I see two different lengths. I suppose that I should opt for the longer set since my towers will be farther rearward than most...and the frame goes down toward the rear?

If anyone has done this mod with a stretch, I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts/experiences!

Thanks,
Tommy
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Unread 07-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #598
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Here is what I did...
image-2659429881.jpg

image-267344202.jpg

image-2685677993.jpg

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Unread 07-21-2014, 08:09 PM   #599
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So I finally skimmed threw this thread. I think when I get my own place and a welder I will start cutting. Some very good info.
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Unread 07-21-2014, 08:36 PM   #600
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Here is what I did...
Thanks, man... I think that's what I'm going to do. I'll wait for coilovers (maybe) when I go to one tons and have more width for them to fit better. That's the Barnes spring perch and Poly long shock tower?
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