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Unread 09-22-2013, 07:50 PM   #1
Sahara Surfer
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Opinions on this anti-seize lubricant application...

So I was removing the axle shafts on my rear Dana44 and in doing so, I completely stripped half of the brake caliper retainer T-bolts that also hold the shafts in place. It seems these are held in place by some type of lock nut that tends to snag on the threads when you try to remove it.

I had four good ones (T-bolts) left that I used to reassemble one side but I didn't want to strip the threads off of these should I find myself needing to take apart the shafts again. So, I applied some anti-seize lubricant on the threads and torqued the nuts to 65 ft-lbs.

Question: Was it a bad idea using anti-seize lubricant on a critical bolted connection like the axle shafts retainers? I know most people would recommend lock-tite instead. I just don't want to deal with stripped T-bolts again; they are hard to find locally and Currie sells them for $2 a piece plus shipping.

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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:11 PM   #2
Moabrubi
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I'm a bit confused as to what you are talking about. The torque spec for the axle retainer plates is 45 ft/lbs per the FSM. You did 65ft lbs with anti seize? Adding anti seize raises your torque by 20% or so.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:20 PM   #3
Sahara Surfer
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Originally Posted by Moabrubi View Post
I'm a bit confused as to what you are talking about. The torque spec for the axle retainer plates is 45 ft/lbs per the FSM. You did 65ft lbs with anti seize? Adding anti seize raises your torque by 20% or so.
It is a G2 D44 axle, not the factory D44. Not sure what the proper torque was. Found 65 ft-lbs online from Stu's axle shaft replacement writeup. I did not know anti-seize increases torque requirements, but that does make sense.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sahara Surfer View Post
I did not know anti-seize increases torque requirements, but that does make sense.
It doesn't, using anti-seize reduces the required torque you apply...
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Knuckelhead

It doesn't, using anti-seize reduces the required torque you apply...
Whew I was hoping someone was going to correct that.

So OP, if your talking about the bolts I think you are, they are supposed to use one time use lock nuts (or loctite if you are re-using the fasteners). I think this may be a bad application for anti-seize, especially if you are re-using the fasteners.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:48 PM   #6
Sahara Surfer
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Originally Posted by J03_TJ View Post
Whew I was hoping someone was going to correct that.

So OP, if your talking about the bolts I think you are, they are supposed to use one time use lock nuts (or loctite if you are re-using the fasteners). I think this may be a bad application for anti-seize, especially if you are re-using the fasteners.
Those lock nuts are one time use? Oh man, does that mean I have to replace the bolts/nuts every time I take apart the shafts? Granted, this won't be a frequent occurence.

I guess I need to remove the bolts again, clean the anti-seize off with a cleaner and use loctite? Man, I hate learning things the hard way.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sahara Surfer View Post
It is a G2 D44 axle, not the factory D44. Not sure what the proper torque was. Found 65 ft-lbs online from Stu's axle shaft replacement writeup. I did not know anti-seize increases torque requirements, but that does make sense.
You are talking about the 4 bolts for the axle retainer... correct? If so those are 45 foot lbs. If you used anti seize you need to lower your torque value by 20%. So 36ft/lbs. Personally I snugged em tight and put blue loctite on there.

I looked on Stus writeup for the 65 ft/lbs value you mentioned and that's for the wheel studs (which is a little light on the torque IMO)
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by J03_TJ View Post
Whew I was hoping someone was going to correct that.
What's incorrect about what I wrote? Reread it, I didn't say you need to raise it. I said that using anti seize adds about 20% of torque.

Or at least that's what I meant .
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:57 PM   #9
Sahara Surfer
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Originally Posted by Moabrubi View Post
You are talking about the 4 bolts for the axle retainer... correct? If so those are 45 foot lbs. If you used anti seize you need to lower your torque value by 20%. So 36ft/lbs. Personally I snugged em tight and put blue loctite on there.

I looked on Stus writeup for the 65 ft/lbs value you mentioned and that's for the wheel studs (which is a little light on the torque IMO)
Man, I think I may have screwed up some more T-bolts... Maaaan... Time to place another order to Currie... Should have ordered eight in the first place.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
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Thanks for the help, guys.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 09:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sahara Surfer View Post
Man, I think I may have screwed up some more T-bolts... Maaaan... Time to place another order to Currie... Should have ordered eight in the first place.
Go to the hardware store, buy some grade 8 5/16 (or whatever size they are) bolts with the same thread pitch, grind one flat of the bolt head down... BOOM, replacement "T" bolts.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Moabrubi View Post
What's incorrect about what I wrote? Reread it, I didn't say you need to raise it. I said that using anti seize adds about 20% of torque.

Or at least that's what I meant .
Torque isn't a measure of "bolt tightness" (tension) it's a measurement of the applied force. Any time you put something the threads (anti-sieze, loctite, oil, etc) it takes less torque to achieve a given tension on the bolt because friction is decreased.

Saying it some how adds torque doesn't make sense because torque is a measurement of an applied force.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by freeskier93 View Post
Torque isn't a measure of "bolt tightness" (tension) it's a measurement of the applied force. Any time you put something the threads (anti-sieze, loctite, oil, etc) it takes less torque to achieve a given tension on the bolt because friction is decreased.

Saying it some how adds torque doesn't make sense because torque is a measurement of an applied force.
No need to get all enginerdy here.. I got the point across.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 09:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 88hatchy View Post
Go to the hardware store, buy some grade 8 5/16 (or whatever size they are) bolts with the same thread pitch, grind one flat of the bolt head down... BOOM, replacement "T" bolts.
The thread pitch should be 3/8-24, at least that is what the factory D44 uses, not sure if G2 uses different hardware for some reason.

If going this route bolts will be easy to find at the hardware store, but the lock nuts are a little more difficult. I did manage to find them at McMaster-Carr. They refer to them as distorted-thread hex locknuts, specifically oval lock with conical top. Item # 92501A430, bag of 100 for about $14.
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Unread 09-22-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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I've RE used mine a couple of times, but used red loctite. I finally have new fasteners on one side, still have to install the other side. I've found them at ace called type c nuts. Might also be called prevailing torque nut? I kind of suppose if you had new bolts and nuts the use of anti-seize might not be as bad as the nuts dig into the bolt threads, you just may not get the same bite as having the threads raw. I love using anti-seize, but wouldn't use it on those particular fasteners. I'd rather have to cut them off than have them come loose and mess up a bearing, thinking the way they bite might not allow them to come off without some axle play warning???
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