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Unread 05-09-2010, 06:15 PM   #226
hotelconucc93
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Opinion? Get a new mechanic, one with a welder and brains.

The nutsrt falls out, until the numbskull tacks them in AND follows the nutsert instructions nestled in this thread.

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Unread 05-09-2010, 09:01 PM   #227
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I didn't see anywhere where it said that the nutsert will fall out...everywhere I've read it says you have to crush them in and then IF YOU WISH you can add a tack weld. Can you kindly show me where it says they're going to fall out unless you tack them in?
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Unread 05-09-2010, 09:34 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samger2 View Post
I didn't see anywhere where it said that the nutsert will fall out...everywhere I've read it says you have to crush them in and then IF YOU WISH you can add a tack weld. Can you kindly show me where it says they're going to fall out unless you tack them in?
You have it correct, especially since at some point, Chrysler quit tack welding them. None of the metric versions I've worked on have the tack welds.

Spend a few minutes in person educating the shop.
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Unread 05-09-2010, 09:55 PM   #229
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I'm still trying to understand how you crush them in place...if the hole is too big and they fall right out how do you get them to stay without a weld?
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Unread 05-09-2010, 10:33 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by samger2 View Post
I'm still trying to understand how you crush them in place...if the hole is too big and they fall right out how do you get them to stay without a weld?
The very first posts explain it. You hold the nut and turn the bolt. That compressed the barrel of the nutsert and flares it out inside the frame.

Here's a visual of a similar style nutsert and down towards the bottom it shows the backside.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...ttach_id=11826
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Unread 05-10-2010, 06:14 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
The very first posts explain it. You hold the nut and turn the bolt. That compressed the barrel of the nutsert and flares it out inside the frame.

Here's a visual of a similar style nutsert and down towards the bottom it shows the backside.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...ttach_id=11826
I guess that was the part I didn't understand.

Maybe I'm just clueless...but I can't understand how if it just falls out of the hole that compressing the barrel will cause it to expand and flare
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Unread 05-10-2010, 06:16 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDuece View Post
The nut and the star lock washer prevent the nutsert from spinning. You hold the wrench steady and tighten the bolt. The wrench and nut stay stationary. As you tighten the bolt it creates force on the nut and the lock washer. That force allows the lock washer to dig into the nutsert, holding it stationary. By holding the nut steady it holds the nutsert steady. The nut, lock washer and nutsert act as one moving part and the bolt is the other. The two upper washers work sort of like a bearing between the two seperate parts of the tool.

The nutsert works like this, As you tighten the bolt it forces the nutsert to collapse and expand onto the inside of the frame. Once it is collapsed it looks just like a rivet . The middle of the nutsert is bulged, making it bigger than the hole it went through.



Ok, in all seriousness... see the above post from a while back in page 1 or 2. I recommend that you take one of the nutserts to Tractor Supply or some dealer that sells Grade 8 hardware ( I think you said you did this..sorry if so) and build the screw together tool. Note the large font for emphasis. The nutsert will be easy to go in and out since it is smaller than the hole. After torque applied with tool and either some red loctite or tacking (or strong hands and lock / star washer application ) the rivit EXPANDS in girth as it collapses inside the frame and HUGS to the inside of the frame.

Of course, all is hard to do if the mechanic has not ground the old nutsert out correctly. Hope and pray the hole is still "stock" size. I just ground mine (nut) flush to the frame and poked the remains through with a punch (since base is too large to fit back out when collapsed tight.

I fear your mechanic might be suggesting frame cutting, welding, etc. That could be costly and more in line with his way of thinking.

Same reason I now do ALL work on mine. Good Luck!!!
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Unread 05-10-2010, 06:44 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samger2 View Post
I guess that was the part I didn't understand.

Maybe I'm just clueless...but I can't understand how if it just falls out of the hole that compressing the barrel will cause it to expand and flare
Here's a quick sketch.



Left sides in and out of the hole. Right is swollen and collapsed - not coming out at all.
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Unread 05-10-2010, 06:50 AM   #234
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Thank you very much for the illustration...both the explanation and illustration help.

I think the problem is this guy is a good friend of mine and a good mechanic...he's done work for me in the past and done it quite well...but for some reason he must be like me and never experienced using a nutsert that has this purpose so he saw it fall right out of the hole and immediatetly thought it wouldn't work...I just went to the shop to talk to him and he isn't in yet...but one of the other guys was...I explained it to him and before I even finished explaining he understood completely and said he'd go over it with my buddy so he understands as well.

Again...thank you.
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Unread 05-10-2010, 06:55 AM   #235
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Good deal. Might be a good idea to print the quickie sketch also and re-explain or have the second mechanic re-explain to him with it. That may do the trick for him.

Sounds like you know him well enough to know you are not getting a typical screw-job that most of us have experienced in the past. For that, I am thankful. Tacking the nutsert BEFORE turning the tool makes it less stressful ( keeps it flush, in place, not falling out, etc) and easier to turn in my opinion.



You're welcome!
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Unread 05-10-2010, 07:09 AM   #236
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Yeah...that would make sense to me to tack it first as well...I've got a portable welder and a tech here at my work willing to tack them, so maybe we'll go that route
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Unread 05-10-2010, 09:32 AM   #237
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Well after explaining everything to two people they were able to get them up in the frame correctly...we have a gas welder here at work that is literally just across the parking lot from where the Jeep is, so I'm going to have them put everything back together, then drive the Jeep across the parking lot to my work and we're going to drop the skid plate enough to use the gas welder on the nutserts...I FINALLY maybe able to drive my Jeep again today.
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Unread 05-10-2010, 10:30 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samger2 View Post
Well after explaining everything to two people they were able to get them up in the frame correctly...we have a gas welder here at work that is literally just across the parking lot from where the Jeep is, so I'm going to have them put everything back together, then drive the Jeep across the parking lot to my work and we're going to drop the skid plate enough to use the gas welder on the nutserts...I FINALLY maybe able to drive my Jeep again today.
As I've stated many times, if you set the nutserts correctly, the tack weld is not needed. If you don't set the nutserts correctly, the tack weld won't do anything for you.

I suspect the tack was purely a manufacturing aid. They ran the frames down an assembly line upside down, dropped the nutserts in and then tacked them for the setting stations. As evidenced by them missing on all the later models, they are clearly not necessary so I wouldn't bother.
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Unread 05-10-2010, 11:06 AM   #239
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So what about a good solid weld around the nutsert? The reason I ask is because two of the nutserts apparently weren't put in correctly because they're starting to pull out a bit...so either the tool method wasn't used...or something...but two of them will definitely need welded.

I don't mean a tack weld, I mean a full on weld around the entire perimeter of the nutsert...that would certainly be as strong as the nutsert had it been installed correctly right?
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Unread 05-10-2010, 12:01 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by samger2 View Post
So what about a good solid weld around the nutsert? The reason I ask is because two of the nutserts apparently weren't put in correctly because they're starting to pull out a bit...so either the tool method wasn't used...or something...but two of them will definitely need welded.

I don't mean a tack weld, I mean a full on weld around the entire perimeter of the nutsert...that would certainly be as strong as the nutsert had it been installed correctly right?
Don't weld all the way around. First make or buy a tool and try to fix the ones that aren't right.

When mine failed the tack weld was fine. The problem is that the part inside the frame (with the threads) falls apart. It's easy enough to grind off a tack weld. A full weld would be a huge pita for no extra value.
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