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Unread 09-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #1
flexedtj
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nutsert elimination...

so i am about to tear into my jeep and install the SYE and driveshaft. my thought is to drop the skid and support the trans/transfer case. then do some layout and with a cut off wheel cut out the entire section of the bottom of the frame. remove the nutserts and fully weld in REAL nuts. then install frame sections back onto the skid and raise it as a unit back into place and tack the pieces in place. remove the skid and completely weld the pieces back into place.

lemme know what you guys think.

im hoping that the frame wont distort too dramatically to really effect anything.

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Unread 09-06-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
flexedtj
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another thought is maybe completely welding the nutserts instead of them just being tacked. idk im pounding my head on the table trying to figure this out.

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Unread 09-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #3
rondak46
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I have been thinking that aftermarket skids should abandon the nutserts altogether and bolt to the inside or outside of the frame rail.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 06:16 PM   #4
rondak46
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I essentially did what you are describing.

I used angle iron. I drilled holes for the skid mounts. I welded nuts to large washers. I welded the washers to the angle iron, over the holes. Clearanced the frame holes to accept the nuts and washers: then zipped the whole thing onto the frame.

I used the washers to allow for any inaccuracy in my bolt alignment layout. I was thinking that the extra gap would help start the bolt and pull things to gethet if it were a bit misaligned.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 06:36 PM   #5
99_TJ_Wyoming
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Bolting to the side of the frame box means drilling holes, there are already a lot of holes through the frame, how many more would you want? And they have to be fairly large to take the stresses of a skid plate. Cutting the bottom of the frame off to weld nuts instead of nutserts may sound like a good idea, but your taking the part of your frame that holds the two sides in place and removing it, even if you could run a solid bead all the way around the cut away your still heating your frame to the melting point to weld it and of course any welding on a frame should be careful and sparing.

There are a few better ways to do what you want, look at Stu Olson's site, he has a good solution (I recall seeing it there but I couldn't find it to link it). Also somewhere here on JF is a write up, I can't find it now, I don't even recall who it was that took large fender washers, welded nuts to them, drilled out the nutserts, put the nut on the washer inside the frame then welded the washer to the bottom of the frame then ground it down nice and smooth, very minimal welding and the same result your looking for. Good luck with it, the write ups are out there somewhere.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #6
flexedtj
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Well the welding part isnt a problem. Thats what i do for a living. However the heat aspect of it and making sure that the joint is completely penetrated to ensure structural soundness. It is a very fine balance and im not sure i want to really risk messing up my frame. Im really liking that nut welded to washer idea. Alot less heat input. Thank god for the internet and jeepforum.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 07:02 PM   #7
AtomicDog
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Could you not just drill out the nutsert, then continue drilling through the top of the frame and through bolt it?
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Unread 09-06-2013, 07:06 PM   #8
kdsk2071
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Would it be possible to have a piece of channel clamp over the top of the frame ? Something that might kinda wrap over the top with a long nut welded to the sides . I'm kinda thinking that way you wouldn't have to put any more stress on a frame that might be getting thin from rusting inside by the time the nutserts give up . Plus something like that might be able to give a Lil more strength n rigidity overall . Whatcha think ? Would that work?
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Unread 09-06-2013, 07:36 PM   #9
flexedtj
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I'm thinking that without a body lift it is almost impossible to get between the frame and the body to do any work. However I could just over size the holes and tig weld nuts to the inside of the frame from the outside. It would be super clean and very strong with no spatter from mig or stick welding.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 10:22 PM   #10
Wheelin98TJ
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Are you sure you have a problem?

Sounds like you haven't tore in to it yet?
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Unread 09-07-2013, 01:45 AM   #11
flexedtj
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Yes i tried a few weeks ago to remove the bolts and 1 just spins in place and 1 of the 6 bolts is already missing. And knowing how much of a pain nutserts can be i honestly would just rather eliminate the problem while i am down there working on things. It just makes sense to me to try and eliminate them.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 07:53 AM   #12
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexedtj View Post
Well the welding part isnt a problem. Thats what i do for a living. However the heat aspect of it and making sure that the joint is completely penetrated to ensure structural soundness. It is a very fine balance and im not sure i want to really risk messing up my frame. Im really liking that nut welded to washer idea. Alot less heat input. Thank god for the internet and jeepforum.
I've repaired a lot of nutserts, I've fixed a bunch of frames, I've hacked, cut, split, and done just about everything to them you can think of except what you want to do the way you want to do it.

The first thing you need to get is quit over thinking it. The second is the frames are a lot more forgiving than you believe.

I use to take a hole saw on the side, drill right above the lower edge opposite the nutserts and then weld in nuts inside the frame or tack nut plates over the holes. When I was done, I would weld the hole saw slug back in the hole, grind it off smooth and call it done.

If I would to do it again, I'd make a nut strip, cut and access hole, slide it in over the holes and plug weld them up from the bottom side after I put bolts in the nuts and snugged them down. Patch the access hole, grind the plug welds flat and call it good.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 07:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexedtj View Post
Yes i tried a few weeks ago to remove the bolts and 1 just spins in place and 1 of the 6 bolts is already missing. And knowing how much of a pain nutserts can be i honestly would just rather eliminate the problem while i am down there working on things. It just makes sense to me to try and eliminate them.
You're tossing 100 dollar solutions at 10 cent problems.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 08:09 AM   #14
flexedtj
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But see money isn't the problem. Ya nutserts might be cheap but I would rather make it the way I want it so I know for myself that it is going to work every time I go to pull the bolts. i won't have to worry about them spinning in place or anything for that matter.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 08:39 AM   #15
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexedtj View Post
But see money isn't the problem. Ya nutserts might be cheap but I would rather make it the way I want it so I know for myself that it is going to work every time I go to pull the bolts. i won't have to worry about them spinning in place or anything for that matter.
I didn't say to put nutserts back in there. Trust me, I'm well aware that such a simple device is outside the realm of being used by a lot of folks due to them not understanding how they work and it's natural to fear the unknown.

My point was, you don't need to cut the bottom of the frame off to fix this problem "permanently".

Use oversize hex nuts though. That way when someone helping you cross threads a bolt without telling you, it can be fixed by drilling it out and rethreading it larger.
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