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Unread 12-01-2011, 07:53 PM   #1
dcope17
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Nothing worth doing is easy... WJ steering and brake conversion

Just like it states... I bought an inverted T steering from Rusty's offroad last year about 2 weeks before the TDS event here in SoCal. I needed something quick to get me up and running for the event. I had been working on the Jeep doing coilovers all around, mid arms and triangulated rear CAs. I have 14" of travel and the stock steering would not work simply because of the TREs binding with the increased travel. I decided on the inverted T cause I can go OTK which raised the steering offsetting the effects of the increased amount of down travel. Also, ( I was ignorant of the setup ) I could mount the drag link to tie rod TRE to the front of the tie rod getting rid of any bind.
So, I set up the T steering as I stated with the draglink TRE on the front and then mounted the track bar parallel to the drag link. Well, with the tie rod in this position... my front tires were toed out slightly which will result in the Jeep wondering all over the road. ( not acceptable ) One full revolution of the tie rod yielded a severely toed in which was more unacceptable. I popped out one TRE and gave it one rev resulting in a slightly toed out setup so I then rotated the tie rod until I had the correct toe in. Now, my drag link and track bar were no longer parallel. Hello bump steer. Also, since the TRE was still to the front of the tie rod, ( actually about 45 deg. ) I had the "dead spot" however, I could not rotate the TRE to the top of the tie rod or else I would have binding and too much toe in.
Sorry for the book there but I wanted everyone to know how the inverted T sucks. It's not designed to work for the street cause of the adjustments, but it's not strong enough for a trail rig as it's simply made of tubing. As soon as you dent the tube... no more strength and it will bend up easily.

So, now I am converting to the WJ steering setup. I'm about 3/4ths done and will show the finished product but here's some pics of the in process...

Pic #1


Pic #2


Pic #3


Pic #4


Pic #5


Pic #6


In the first pic... the drag link and track bar are equal length and parallel. The drag link is set by the knuckle ( cannot move location ) and bending the pitman arm upward so the TRE does not contact the tie rod at full stuff shown in pic #4, but does not hit the radiator either. ( not pictured ) So, drag link cannot move from where it is... I wanted to have the track bar ultimately hidden behind the drag link but could not get it that high, in Pic #3, it shows why.( pulley contact ) so , now, track bar is set and really cannot be adjusted to any better location.
Pic #1 is at ride height... Pic #2 - #5 are stuffed both sides... Pic#6 is stuffed pass side and fully extended drivers... steering full lock right. Yields the highest amount of frame contact but it has been removed.
Anyway, I now have to finish up the frame notch, fully weld and paint. I need to brace the track bar mount to the axle... then put it all back together.
I'm guessing I'll have better steering strength and response than the junk inv. T setup.

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Unread 12-01-2011, 07:55 PM   #2
dcope17
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New added on 12-26-11

Here's the right side swaybar tab that will mount on top of the trackbar mount... first one I made looked like it would bend right on the line so I had to make another...


Here it is tacked on and testing out clearances.


Fully stuffed passenger side...I think I'll get some links that will end up about 1" shorter and have threads for the jam nuts.




I wanted to move the mount about 1" forward but would have to make it about 2" higher to clear the drag link at full droop. I don't want to make the links that short so where it is... is where it is.



Went ahead and set my toe in which is a little under 1/16" front of rim to back



I have to do some finishing work on the metal cloak inner fenders and paint them black... get rid of wire ties and get everything mounted. Once I get that done... I'll get the WJ brakes on there and get some final pics.
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Life with Christ can be explained like a Jeep...
Being in the Word... grows your tire size.
Prayer... gains more ground clearance.
Fellowship... Is like having a good spotter.

The more of these you have... the easier it is to get over obstacles in your path.
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Unread 12-01-2011, 07:57 PM   #3
dcope17
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I'll go ahead and grab one more...
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Life with Christ can be explained like a Jeep...
Being in the Word... grows your tire size.
Prayer... gains more ground clearance.
Fellowship... Is like having a good spotter.

The more of these you have... the easier it is to get over obstacles in your path.
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Unread 12-01-2011, 08:45 PM   #4
TJ02Gopher
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Don't know if I would trust the track bar being mounted single shear on the axle side. That being my only critique, nice work 👍
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Unread 12-01-2011, 10:13 PM   #5
dcope17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ02Gopher View Post
Don't know if I would trust the track bar being mounted single shear on the axle side. That being my only critique, nice work 👍
That one is just for setup. This is the part that will be used... Still single shear, but the C-bore matches the Heim joint so more will have to break than just the bolt. Not perfect... but better.

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Life with Christ can be explained like a Jeep...
Being in the Word... grows your tire size.
Prayer... gains more ground clearance.
Fellowship... Is like having a good spotter.

The more of these you have... the easier it is to get over obstacles in your path.
.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ02Gopher View Post
Don't know if I would trust the track bar being mounted single shear on the axle side. That being my only critique, nice work ��
When the tube is properly mounted and braced to the inner C, it's simply not an issue. I've been doing it that way for many years and have not had a single failure or even a loosening of the bolt.

You need to understand that the bolt is a 3/4" grade 8 and when torqued to the recommended 300 ft lbs of torque, it has a clamp force of 30,000 lbs and a proof load of 40,000 lbs before the joint will slip.

Consider that it's doing the job that used to be done by a 10mm bolt and it won't ever be a problem.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:02 AM   #7
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcope17 View Post
That one is just for setup. This is the part that will be used... Still single shear, but the C-bore matches the Heim joint so more will have to break than just the bolt. Not perfect... but better.

Nice work, even though it's totally not necessary.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:08 AM   #8
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Real slick, looking forward to some pictures once it's all finished.
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Unread 12-26-2011, 10:40 PM   #9
dcope17
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I added new pics and such.... I put them in post #2.
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Life with Christ can be explained like a Jeep...
Being in the Word... grows your tire size.
Prayer... gains more ground clearance.
Fellowship... Is like having a good spotter.

The more of these you have... the easier it is to get over obstacles in your path.
.
.[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f194/dcope17s-thoughts-bible-please-read-only-do-not-post-1333441/#post13115090"]My Bible Thread[/URL]
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Unread 12-27-2011, 05:29 AM   #10
snowrydr01
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VERY nice. What joints are you using?

That is a massive reinforcement plate on the frame, didnt trust simply adding a plate on both side after notching? Or did you basically notch the whole frame away?

And thank you, I have 90% of the parts gathered for the WJ swap and every month or so i get lazzy and start thinking about just using currie steering and vanco brakes. Its nice thought out WJ swaps like this that remind me it can be done well and its worth the effort
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Unread 12-27-2011, 08:48 AM   #11
snowrydr01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcope17 View Post
New added on 12-26-11



Blaine, since you have done this multiple times. Besides from figuring out where to put the frame side mount, is there any reason why this couldnt be on the inside of the C? I still have the stock spring location (no intention to change) so the above location would not work for me.
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Unread 12-27-2011, 08:54 AM   #12
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowrydr01 View Post
Blaine, since you have done this multiple times. Besides from figuring out where to put the frame side mount, is there any reason why this couldnt be on the inside of the C? I still have the stock spring location (no intention to change) so the above location would not work for me.
You can try to make it work with the stock spring location, but I doubt you'll pull it off. Go look at how long the tube would have to be to sneak a trackbar past the front of the spring and then still be inside the draglink.

When you set something like this up, you do the draglink first and rough in the pitman side. After you center the axle under the rig, then you lay out the trackbar to fit behind it starting at the knuckle side.

I don't think there is enough room for the draglink and the trackbar to get in front of the spring with it in the stock location.
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Unread 12-27-2011, 10:03 AM   #13
dcope17
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Blaine got me all the TREs so I don't know what they are but he does.
I did the brace on the frame that big to keep the same 4" tall as the rest of the frame and I had the room. I would perfer it to be longet and lower slightly or at least smoother looking but I wasn't willing to cut off my shock hoop to make that happen. I did cut about 1/2 through the frame...
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Life with Christ can be explained like a Jeep...
Being in the Word... grows your tire size.
Prayer... gains more ground clearance.
Fellowship... Is like having a good spotter.

The more of these you have... the easier it is to get over obstacles in your path.
.
.[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f194/dcope17s-thoughts-bible-please-read-only-do-not-post-1333441/#post13115090"]My Bible Thread[/URL]
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Unread 12-27-2011, 10:12 AM   #14
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowrydr01 View Post
VERY nice. What joints are you using?
I can't see the pitman side in the pics, so they are either the Parts Mike versions of the HMA Chevy TRE's or the Moog versions. The Moog versions are different lengths with one having a very long shank and the PM versions are the same length.

Quote:
That is a massive reinforcement plate on the frame, didnt trust simply adding a plate on both side after notching? Or did you basically notch the whole frame away?
It's way overkill. I don't even plate the sides.
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Unread 12-27-2011, 10:22 AM   #15
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How low is your lift that you had to notch the frame?
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