New lockers and new Atlas adds a crescendo of new noises. - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > New lockers and new Atlas adds a crescendo of new noises.

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineNEW!! HMF 50"-52" light bar mounting brackets!! Year End Clearance Sale! Save 20%

Reply
Unread 02-03-2014, 06:35 PM   #16
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 19,696
I think someone doesn't know how drive shafts work.

Your rear pinion needs to come up about 8 degrees. Your front needs to come up 3 degrees.

Report back afterwards.

Note: Look at your diff covers and look at the flat round machined spots on the center section. They are perpendicular to your pinion centerline. Putting a magnetic angle finder on them will give you accurate results of your pinion angle.

__________________
OlllllllO
Float Test Build
IndyORV
Imped is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 06:52 PM   #17
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post

Putting a magnetic angle finder on them will give you accurate results of your pinion angle.
That's what I did.

Will report when adjusted.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 06:55 PM   #18
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post

Your rear pinion needs to come up about 8 degrees. Your front needs to come up 3 degrees.
Coming up 8 degrees for the rear makes sense. Why only 3 degrees up for the front? The front difference is currently 7 degrees.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 07:39 PM   #19
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 19,696
Good question. You have a LP TJ front axle, which means you've got 12 degrees of separation between the caster and pinion axes. With it currently at 5 degrees up, your caster is at 7 degrees positive (12-5=7). For 33" tires, I consider 4 degrees caster the absolute minimum necessary to give you nice feel and return to center. In addition to that, you've also got to pay attention to the limits of the u-joint at your axle yoke. It can't handle more than about a 3 degree differential. So, by rotating the pinion up 3 degrees you're relieving the u-joint angle and are decreasing the caster. You'll be seeing 4 degrees once you rotate the axle so that's why I said report back. It may feel OK, it may not. Ideally, you'd want to sit around 6 degrees caster with the pinion 1-2 degrees below the drive shaft but with your current axle and transfer case height relative to the axle that's just not possible.

FYI, I just realized you have what look to be fixed lower control arms and stock uppers. You've got trussed axles and an Atlas but still have junky arms? I highly recommend some good arms and if you want to be in that ideal situation with your front axle I recommend swapping out the LP for a HP30. I'd also recommend going to a new shop. If they don't know how to do something as simple as simple as properly setting your pinion angles and caster up front then I'd be weary of their other work.
__________________
OlllllllO
Float Test Build
IndyORV
Imped is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 08:44 PM   #20
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Good question. You have a LP TJ front axle, which means you've got 12 degrees of separation between the caster and pinion axes. With it currently at 5 degrees up, your caster is at 7 degrees positive (12-5=7). For 33" tires, I consider 4 degrees caster the absolute minimum necessary to give you nice feel and return to center. In addition to that, you've also got to pay attention to the limits of the u-joint at your axle yoke. It can't handle more than about a 3 degree differential. So, by rotating the pinion up 3 degrees you're relieving the u-joint angle and are decreasing the caster. You'll be seeing 4 degrees once you rotate the axle so that's why I said report back. It may feel OK, it may not. Ideally, you'd want to sit around 6 degrees caster with the pinion 1-2 degrees below the drive shaft but with your current axle and transfer case height relative to the axle that's just not possible.

FYI, I just realized you have what look to be fixed lower control arms and stock uppers. You've got trussed axles and an Atlas but still have junky arms? I highly recommend some good arms and if you want to be in that ideal situation with your front axle I recommend swapping out the LP for a HP30. I'd also recommend going to a new shop. If they don't know how to do something as simple as simple as properly setting your pinion angles and caster up front then I'd be weary of their other work.
Wow. I bow to you. How did you know I had fixed lowers and stock uppers? Nice sleuthing. I'm going to buy my own rokmen upper front and rear adjustables and set them myself.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #21
afusco1222
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1ark View Post
Wow. I bow to you. How did you know I had fixed lowers and stock uppers? Nice sleuthing. I'm going to buy my own rokmen upper front and rear adjustables and set them myself.
You can see what arms you have in the second set of pictures. Also look at the Metalcloak arms. They are awesome and with free shipping, could possibly be cheaper.
afusco1222 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-03-2014, 11:12 PM   #22
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by afusco1222 View Post
Also look at the Metalcloak arms. They are awesome and with free shipping, could possibly be cheaper.
Just placed my order for front and rear metal cloak upper double adjustable control arms. Shipping was not free. $643 delivered.

Thanks for the recommendation. I sure hope I don't regret not going to Johnny Joints.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2014, 06:13 AM   #23
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 19,696
I think you'll be very happy with those.

I can't tell what you have in the rear. Do you have the means to properly rotate the axle housing back there?

Also, if you have plans to go to a HP30 now is the time to do it.....well, that time is already past but better late than never.
__________________
OlllllllO
Float Test Build
IndyORV
Imped is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2014, 07:44 PM   #24
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post

I can't tell what you have in the rear. Do you have the means to properly rotate the axle housing back there?.
The rear has a built 8.8 with an Artec truss, fixed rough country lower control arm with clevite bushings and stock upper control arms.

What do you mean, " do you have the means" ? Can I raise the rear pinion 8 degrees with just the metal cloak uppers in the rear?
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2014, 08:52 PM   #25
tjcj
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Yakima, Wa
Posts: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1ark View Post

The rear has a built 8.8 with an Artec truss, fixed rough country lower control arm with clevite bushings and stock upper control arms.

What do you mean, " do you have the means" ? Can I raise the rear pinion 8 degrees with just the metal cloak uppers in the rear?
Imped was asking if you currently have adjustable rear arms or are they fixed. Yes you will be able to adjust the 8° with the MC arms.

Sent from my XT881freeze ray gun using JeepForum
__________________
Yakima Valley Mountaineers.
tjcj is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2014, 07:38 PM   #26
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
I installed my front and rear double adjustable metal cloak upper control arms. I adjusted my pinion angles as follows:

Rear:

Driveshaft 20 degrees
8.8 pinion 19 degrees

Front:
Driveshaft 12 degrees
LP30 pinion 9 degrees
Caster 3 degrees

To late to test drive. I'll drive in on the interstate tomorrow and report back.

Any thoughts on my initial adjustments?
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-10-2014, 07:32 PM   #27
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1ark View Post
I installed my front and rear double adjustable metal cloak upper control arms. I adjusted my pinion angles as follows:

Rear:

Driveshaft 20 degrees
8.8 pinion 19 degrees

Front:
Driveshaft 12 degrees
LP30 pinion 9 degrees
Caster 3 degrees

To late to test drive. I'll drive in on the interstate tomorrow and report back.

Any thoughts on my initial adjustments?
This did the trick. No driveline noises. Caster was just fine at 3 degrees.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-16-2014, 07:52 PM   #28
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Noises eliminated! Fixed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A4LiterV8eater View Post
The only thing I would think would add noises is the Grizzly Locker unless the drive shafts were setup improperly. What do the noises sound like?

EDIT:

Actually I take that back, depending on your cross member, body lift, trans mount, and the way you have your atlas clocked, the Atlas could be tapping the skid or underside of your body.
You're right. The Atlas was clocked at 7 degrees but since I don't have a body lift the Atlas was contacting the tub. The connection to the crossmember was loose causing clunking when clutching in and out.

My Jeep is once again quiet as stock. All it took was an additional $634 for new Metal Cloak upper control arms front and rear. Adjusted the pinion angles.

Still made clunking noises when clutch was depressed and released under load and a loud bearing rattling noise from the Atlas 2 when at highway speed and coasting.

Still not satisfied I did a lot of research and bought a $40 1" transfer case lowering kit and adjusted the front and rear pinions again to 9 degrees front and 16 degrees rear to match the new driveshaft angles from the transfer case drop.

Voila!!! Engine sounds better, exhaust sound better, no vibes, no rattles from the Atlas 2, and no clunking when clutching in or out.

Sounds like a stock jeep again except it has an Atlas 2 transfer case, front and rear Yukon Grizzly lockers, chromoly and trussed axles (D30/8.8). I now know the street manners of the Yukon Grizzly's are awesome. No clunking, popping, clicking, jerking on the road. Feels like an open diff. Climbs like a mountain goat off-road. I am very glad I went with an auto locker vice a selectable.

Countless hours researching on Jeep Forum helped me find solutions to my build.

Thanks JF!!!
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-16-2014, 09:43 PM   #29
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 19,696
But now you have a low belly. You'd be much better off raising the body 1" and tucking things up as high as possible under there. Create clearance, don't lose it. It's possible for you to have the exact same results you have now--silence, correctness, and smoothness--with great belly clearance.
__________________
OlllllllO
Float Test Build
IndyORV
Imped is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-17-2014, 10:10 AM   #30
M1ark
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
But now you have a low belly. You'd be much better off raising the body 1" and tucking things up as high as possible under there. Create clearance, don't lose it. It's possible for you to have the exact same results you have now--silence, correctness, and smoothness--with great belly clearance.
I agree. I just needed to know it was possible to get it quiet with all of my new add ons.

My concern is my LP30. I am not entirely sure I can get the ride I want (blasting the interstate at 80 mph all day straight and quiet then wheel Moab) on 4" coils on an LP30 without either:

1. A transfer case drop
2. An HP30
3. My LP30 with lockout hubs
4. Both knuckles cut and turned to fix caster and pinion angle

I choose the cheaper option for now and really happy.

I am also thinking about an aftermarket crossmember and as flat a skid as possible along with a 1" Bl and a 1" mml.

When I look under my jeep I see lots of room now between the skid and tub. Makes the Atlas look small.
__________________
98 TJ Sport, 4.0 liter, 4" lift, 33" Mud Terrains
D30, Artec Truss, Artec C Gusset, Yukon Grizzly, Chromoly Axle
Ford 8.8, Artec Truss, Yukon Grizzly, C Clip Eliminator, Disc Brakes
Atlas II 3.8 Transfer Case, Yukon 4.88 Gears, Custom Drive Shaft Front & Rear
M1ark is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.