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Unread 07-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #841
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_hollis View Post
mrblaine, I went by Fastenal, and got some grade 5 carriage bolts. They know me there, cause I'm always coming in looking for 10.9 metric bolts, and such.
Your Fastenal is better than the ones I've been to. Glad you got the right ones.

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Unread 07-04-2010, 10:27 AM   #842
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Well, this is Houston. I know of 3 or 4 different industrial bolt and fastener stores within 5 miles of me. Most have a minimum purchase price, though...
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Unread 07-04-2010, 10:54 AM   #843
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post


We have not ever hid the fact that we weld 6061 T-6 and well know that when you do so, it does change it's strength.

Now then, everyone who has had a skid failure due to our welds failing or any other failure, please raise your hand???


That's right, no one, not a single weld failure, not a single skid failure and we have encouraged folks to beat them mercilessly. There's more to engineering a skid that just bending up some metal and slapping it together.

If you pay close attention to the design, the welds are designed in such a manner that they merely hold the sides in and add some structural integrity to help hold the shape. Now, if you manage to catastrophically damage the welds on a horridly fun trail somewhere, the steel mounting flanges are made in such a way that there are bolts through the sides to keep them somewhat in place should you shear all the welds loose.



Hmmmm, let me see, oh, that's right, that's why they are called BUMPERS, because you bump into things with them. The bumper is bent up out of one piece of aluminum sheet and two little flaps are folded to make the corner. The structural part that holds the winch in place with the fairlead mount is where the strength needs to be and is. There's not a steel folded bumper made that isn't susceptible to having the corners mangled and I should know, I've done it to at least five of them.

Typically though, if I have an issue with something, I tend to avoid it. You're welcome to do the same.



And???
Easy there, watchdog.

I didn't say you hid it, but I asked Gerald in another post if it was artificially aged or heat treated after the welding. He didn't answe me and I figured he might not have noticed my question in the thread so I emailed him and got no reply. Oh well.

I know bumpers are for bumping into things. Thanks for the sarcasm. I'm not saying the Savvy bumpers aren't designed well. I think it's a pretty clever design. The cold working with the bends actually strangthens the material, and the areas that will likely see the most stress look pretty solid. (IE the fairlead mount, which is made out of steel...)

I'm between Jeeps right now and I am eying up products for my replacement XJ. I was hoping you'd pop out a couple XJ products because I think you sell high quality stuff, and it baffles me that you can sell the aluminum bumper at that price and still turn a profit. (a compliment, not a critism)

My concern is that, although pound for pound aluminum is stronger than steel, per material thickness the T6 is about 20% weaker than steel. Throw a weld on there, and it creates weak areas. I'm not sure if it will ever pan out to a crunched bumper, but I was just wanting to see if this area was adressed. Welding the bumpers is kind of an eventuality without making them look like butt, I understand that.

But if my questions or concerns are met with a flamethrower, I'll take you up on the offer to avoid these products. (Not that you'll lose any sleep at night over it.)
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Unread 07-04-2010, 11:11 AM   #844
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Originally Posted by JeepFund View Post
Easy there, watchdog.
Easy is as easy does. If you want respect and civility without sarcasm, render up the same and you'll be treated accordingly.

Quote:
I didn't say you hid it, but I asked Gerald in another post if it was artificially aged or heat treated after the welding. He didn't answe me and I figured he might not have noticed my question in the thread so I emailed him and got no reply. Oh well.
Don't parse innuendo. You clearly were antagonistic by saying you wouldn't get a reply. To smooth things out in the future, address sales, marketing and shipping questions to Gerald and let me handle the technical side of why things are designed the way they are. Not to mention that Gerald gets about 300 emails a day.

Quote:
I know bumpers are for bumping into things. Thanks for the sarcasm.
You're welcome, thanks for starting this off on the right foot.


Quote:
I'm not saying the Savvy bumpers aren't designed well. I think it's a pretty clever design. The cold working with the bends actually strangthens the material, and the areas that will likely see the most stress look pretty solid. (IE the fairlead mount, which is made out of steel...)
The fairlead mount is made from the same material as the bumper.

Quote:
I'm between Jeeps right now and I am eying up products for my replacement XJ. I was hoping you'd pop out a couple XJ products because I think you sell high quality stuff, and it baffles me that you can sell the aluminum bumper at that price and still turn a profit. (a compliment, not a critism)
Half of the challenge in designing and building products is figuring out how to make them and keep them cost effective to build. We work extraordinarily hard on cutting costs at the manufacturing process side of things. We don't compromise the quality, we just get real creative in how we make stuff. It doesn't always work, but we always try.

Quote:
My concern is that, although pound for pound aluminum is stronger than steel, per material thickness the T6 is about 20% weaker than steel. Throw a weld on there, and it creates weak areas. I'm not sure if it will ever pan out to a crunched bumper, but I was just wanting to see if this area was adressed. Welding the bumpers is kind of an eventuality without making them look like butt, I understand that.
I have the same concerns and like you've recognized, it sorta has to be the way it is. I designed a bolt on corner, but could not stop it from looking bad, so I went with the welded corner. If it becomes an issue, I'll make a small reinforcing piece that spans the weld on the interior portion and beef it up.

Quote:
But if my questions or concerns are met with a flamethrower, I'll take you up on the offer to avoid these products. (Not that you'll lose any sleep at night over it.)
Here's my view on this whole mess. If you are polite and civil with an inquiry, I assume you are interested in the merits of the product and are genuinely curious and just need some help with some questions and concerns.

If on the other hand, you start in being antagonistic, I will most always assume there will be little to nothing I can do to convince you that the product is valid because you already have your mind made up.
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Unread 07-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #845
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I'm gonna go ahead and subscribe to this here thread. mrblaine's attitude provides much entertainment for me.





(that's not a negative thing)
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Unread 07-04-2010, 02:21 PM   #846
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Fair enough Blaine. I just wasn't expecting the explovise reply, I didn't realize the degree to which I offended.

I am genuinely impressed with the Savvy products. As mall-crawlery as this sounds, I love the tail lights. I'm just still cautiously optimistic about the aluminum.

I didn't realize the fairlead mount was aluminum... I'd like to check out these products in Jersey action, I'll have to keep my eye out.

Changing gears, are you looking into the XJ market at all? I'm all about the simple design and lightweight thing.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 06:20 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by JeepFund View Post
Fair enough Blaine. I just wasn't expecting the explovise reply, I didn't realize the degree to which I offended.

I am genuinely impressed with the Savvy products. As mall-crawlery as this sounds, I love the tail lights. I'm just still cautiously optimistic about the aluminum.

I didn't realize the fairlead mount was aluminum... I'd like to check out these products in Jersey action, I'll have to keep my eye out.

Changing gears, are you looking into the XJ market at all? I'm all about the simple design and lightweight thing.
WHO ARE YOU to question Savvy's welding procedures with non-ferrous alloys!!!!
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Unread 07-06-2010, 10:21 PM   #848
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Ran Iron Chest yesterday, only touched the GTS 2 times, i did almost totally shave off my bottom bolt on my diff cover. I hit my exhaust more than i hit my GTS. Hiked to the top of Iron Chest to the flag, that is a serious workout. I am not used to this altitude.
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Don't ask me to repeat or remember those prices, I may be grumpy tomorrow and either double them or quit altogether.



Want to STOP?

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Unread 07-06-2010, 11:48 PM   #849
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I can't breathe above 12k. I'm not a smoker either...
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Unread 07-07-2010, 09:05 AM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_hollis View Post
I can't breathe above 12k. I'm not a smoker either...
You just have to take it slow, we might give chinaman gulch a shot tomorrow. I got some rock rash on my front bumper, but what im really tearing up is my transfercase skid plate. Its got a fresh buckle to it!
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Don't ask me to repeat or remember those prices, I may be grumpy tomorrow and either double them or quit altogether.



Want to STOP?

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Unread 07-07-2010, 11:38 AM   #851
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Originally Posted by LuckRider View Post
I just noticed that there are welds on the skid. From doing some research about welding 6061 T6, I found out that welding on it can reduce its strength by up to 80% changing its grade (unless it has been aged or heat treated again).
You are correct to a degree. It's the heat affected zone that loses it strength. However, the HAZ will also naturally age overtime restoring some of its strength. I believe it to eventually land in the vicinity of T4 strength. Most likely a little less.

Something else to keep in mind. Take a look at the cold worked areas on the bumper. Cold work + solutionized + artificially aged= T8

Like Jeepfund brought out the bumper is a very clever design.

As for the skid. Not much to say at this time.
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Unread 07-07-2010, 12:03 PM   #852
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No.... I wasn't disagreeing... I was trying to bring up a point and ask a question but I failed in execution by forgetting to add the question I did get my answer though.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:21 PM   #853
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Going on 18 months and not a single problem with any of our gas tank skids. We've sold hundreds!

Thank you to everyone who purchased a skid!
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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:34 PM   #854
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i keep trying to break mine. season's almost done for the year around here, so it may have to wait until next year.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:48 PM   #855
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Finally got mine on the Jeep on Sunday.

I'll try to get pics soon. I'll use a real camera just for Gerald

The weight savings are severely drastic! (especially with the old skid being full of mud)
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