Need steering help.

VikesTJman · 09-01-2010, 08:24 PM

Does anything in these pics look off in any way to anybody? Despite no steering stabilizer.

**meatlord** · 09-02-2010, 05:29 PM

What exactly are you looking for? Are you having some type of steering issue?

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 06:03 PM

Death wobble. Only when i get over 45, and not even when i hit bumps, just when i get over 45. I am seeing if anyone can see something we have lined up wrong under there, cuz we have gone over EVERYTHING. Adjusted the caster, and need to test drive it. But that won't happen til later tonight.

**meatlord** · 09-02-2010, 06:42 PM

I recently had a similar issue with my Rubicon, turned out to be a combination of improper caster/toe and worn ball joints. Replaced the ball joints and reset the caster carefully(was off 1* side to side) no more Issues. From the pics you posted I cant ID anything wrong. You swapped that axle in right? Any background on that?

petegall79 · 09-02-2010, 06:45 PM

Maybe warped rotors? And your tires are balanced? Is it a full DW or just a shimmy that goes away after 2-5 seconds?

From the pics, it looks like your track rod is cranked quite a bit away from being lined up nicely for it's upper joint -- maybe the front axle is too far forward?

Also the TRE's look splayed out at the hubs... like when a toe alignment was done with the front axle hanging loose and the frame on jackstands, and then you went for a drive.

Actually, i can see your lower trackrod joint is only torqued to 38 ft-lbs... oh wait... that was mine when i got rid of a case of the pseudo-DW shimmy. Sorry, couldn't resist... I feel like i'm in a bar, looking at two pictures of a nekked chic trying to find the differences, only one pic is your rig, and one is mine.

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegall79

Maybe warped rotors? And your tires are balanced? Is it a full DW or just a shimmy that goes away after 2-5 seconds?

From the pics, it looks like your track rod is cranked quite a bit away from being lined up nicely for it's upper joint -- maybe the front axle is too far forward?

Also the TRE's look splayed out at the hubs... like when a toe alignment was done with the front axle hanging loose and the frame on jackstands, and then you went for a drive.

Actually, i can see your lower trackrod joint is only torqued to 38 ft-lbs... oh wait... that was mine when i got rid of a case of the pseudo-DW shimmy. Sorry, couldn't resist... I feel like i'm in a bar, looking at two pictures of a nekked chic trying to find the differences, only one pic is your rig, and one is mine.

Rotors are good. Your post made me laugh at the end. You seem to have hit it on the head, we did the alignment on a jack. Thanks for your post! What else did you have wrong? Or was that it?

**mrblaine** · 09-02-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VikesTJman

Death wobble. Only when i get over 45, and not even when i hit bumps, just when i get over 45. I am seeing if anyone can see something we have lined up wrong under there, cuz we have gone over EVERYTHING. Adjusted the caster, and need to test drive it. But that won't happen til later tonight.

Why don't you bring us up to speed with a bit of history? You have several things that are much different than the way I'd do them, so I'd like to know how all that's working out for you?

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 07:35 PM

The tires are balanced by airsoft beads inside.

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Why don't you bring us up to speed with a bit of history? You have several things that are much different than the way I'd do them, so I'd like to know how all that's working out for you?

The easiest way to do that is let you read my build thread, the link is in my sig. It all is super smooth, really good and comfortable. The clayton lift with 5" of stretch is bomb. Also, i have the 38" TSL tires and a tie rod that was custom made for the toe of things. F/R waggy Dana 44's. The death wobble is the only thing now. Tweaked it so the steering wheel is just so close to dead straight its hard to get straighter. Um, what other history would you like? Not being sarcastic, i truly want to find a solution, being we have addressed just about everything else. OH, we had a wheel base problem in the beginning and the left side measured different than the right. Cant remember if it was shorter or longer. We moved the lower control arm on the front until things matched up.

**mrblaine** · 09-02-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VikesTJman

The easiest way to do that is let you read my build thread, the link is in my sig. It all is super smooth, really good and comfortable. The clayton lift with 5" of stretch is bomb. Also, i have the 38" TSL tires and a tie rod that was custom made for the toe of things. F/R waggy Dana 44's. The death wobble is the only thing now. Tweaked it so the steering wheel is just so close to dead straight its hard to get straighter. Um, what other history would you like? Not being sarcastic, i truly want to find a solution, being we have addressed just about everything else. OH, we had a wheel base problem in the beginning and the left side measured different than the right. Cant remember if it was shorter or longer. We moved the lower control arm on the front until things matched up.

DW is caused by the inability of the front suspension and steering components to control the axle and stabilize it.

You may not have started with DW, but you've now reached the point where the tires are starting to take their toll.

Your rig is not built for the size of tire you're running.

Minimum for 38's is ram assist. Custom high strength steering. Straight trackbar. JJ's or equivalent in both ends of the control arms. There's more, but that would be a start.

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 08:04 PM

Got JJ's, ram assist is a bit of work away. I know it would probably fix the problem too. Just money. But ram assist cant be the only way to fix this.

**mrblaine** · 09-02-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VikesTJman

Got JJ's, ram assist is a bit of work away. I know it would probably fix the problem too.

If you have JJ's at both ends of the front arms, then my eyes are FUBAR, you don't know what you're talking about, or the camera is lying.

In one pic I clearly see the flange from a control arm bushing. I'm 99.99 percent certain you don't have JJ's in the uppers on the axle. And I'm 99.99 percent sure you don't have JJ's where the short upper meets the long lower?

Quote:

Just money. But ram assist cant be the only way to fix this.

Smaller tires that you can balance will go a long way, but you're running stock steering with 38's. What did you think was going to happen?

VikesTJman · 09-02-2010, 08:26 PM

Oops. My bad. Not JJ's. haha. I have seen people run stock with a setup this big and not have DW, or at least fix it fast and easy. Might just go with smaller tires and sell these. Sucks, but might be the easiest, next step.

petegall79 · 09-05-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VikesTJman

Rotors are good. Your post made me laugh at the end. You seem to have hit it on the head, we did the alignment on a jack. Thanks for your post! What else did you have wrong? Or was that it?

That was pretty much it - looked like the toe was way out and i can see that if the alignment wasn't done with the vehicle weight on the springs. I think if the toe's out too much, what you're talking about is almost guaranteed to happen: DW at higher speed with no *other* trigger.

Not sure if this is a nitpick, but it also looked like the rod end at the pitman arm was rotated over too much, throwing off plane on which the pitman expects the rod end stud to be at center (which is what led me to look at the TRE's in the first place).

VikesTJman · 09-05-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegall79

That was pretty much it - looked like the toe was way out and i can see that if the alignment wasn't done with the vehicle weight on the springs. I think if the toe's out too much, what you're talking about is almost guaranteed to happen: DW at higher speed with no *other* trigger.

Not sure if this is a nitpick, but it also looked like the rod end at the pitman arm was rotated over too much, throwing off plane on which the pitman expects the rod end stud to be at center (which is what led me to look at the TRE's in the first place).

It's toed in and to the left. Got it on a rack. Caster is 2.7 on the right, 2.9 on the left. My problem that is giving me death wobble, and this is after lots of searching and looking in the wrong places, the tie rod bolts are too small for the bigger knuckles. Got some conical washers on the way to close the gap in the knuckles.