My Deathwobble Resolved - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > My Deathwobble Resolved

Premium LED Lighting by VISION X, Proudly sold at ROCKRIDGBds fox ipf 2.0 racing series shocks now available at rockEngo winches available at www.rockridge4wd.com! Free shipp

Reply
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:27 PM   #16
Brian86992
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 1,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
Did it shimmy or go into full on DW?
I would have to go back through his thread... I could have sworn it was a full blown DW but don't quote me on that.

__________________
Protect the Constitution


4 linked DD on coilovers
Brian86992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:41 PM   #17
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
The bent wheel was there for the 10k miles I owned it prior to installing the lift so it can't have been the only cause.

I don't understand how having slop between the bolt shank and the trackbar bushing as well as between the shank and the mounting holes wouldn't contribute to the issue I had.
Well, how about because you and many others who incorrectly blame the same thing don't understand bolted connections?

There is no slop unless the bolt loses it's tension from loss of the correct torque or the faying surfaces fail. If the bolt shank ever sees the lateral forces from the bolt sleeve in the bushing, then the connection has failed and no amount of precision fit or precise machine work will save it.

If you believe any of that to be false, simply walk out to your rig, take the appropriate tools and loosen the axle side trackbar bolt completely, tighten it back up just slightly past finger tight or just enough to get all the play out of the joint and then go for a drive. What is that perfect fit doing for you now? Exactly nothing.

That particular bolted connection relies solely on one thing and one thing only. It must have a fastener through the bolt sleeve that develops enough clamping force to bring the faying surfaces, (both ends of the bolt sleeve and both sides of the bracket, and the contact areas under the head of the bolt and the nut) into a high enough friction arrangement that the bolt sleeve inside the bushing cannot move.

It matters not the diameter of the bolt, only the clamping force developed. (assuming there is enough surface area and you said there was)



Quote:
Maybe Chrysler should have used cone washers on this connection so as you torqued down the bolts the cones would force there to be zero slop in the connection. It would certainly make the removal of the trackbar as much of a PITA as removing LandCruiser steering components but would make for a tighter connection.
Why would that even be needed? That joint isn't under that much stress. Look at it again, you're worried about a bolt and it's a piece of 1/8" thick not especially robust in it's bracing and bent into a u-shape. How big of a bolt does it really need?
Quote:
My theory is that the u-joint vibes caused by the bad pinion angle and the bent wheel introduced enough vibes into the system that the bad trackbar bolt couldn't handle it. It is very possible that I could move the bad wheel to the front and/or change the pinion angle and introduce vibrations with the current bolt and have DW.
Possibly, the better test would be to put the old bolt back in, torque it to 50 ft lbs and prove me wrong.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2012, 11:04 PM   #18
Confusion
Registered User
2005 WK 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gainesville, GA
Posts: 15
Good point on the amount of force applied on the track bar. I have no problem being proven wrong but I've got a ton of driving to do over the next week and don't want to mess what is currently working. Seriously, I would love to prove one way or the other but that will have to wait until a better time.

This is exactly why I said this is what fixed my DW and not that I had found the cure for all DW . The experiences and explanations of others were a very big help with my understanding of the issue. Unfortunately due to limited time I had to do the shotgun approach versus making one change at a time.

At least I didn't post up for help, ignore and/or argue with good advice, then never post up any of my results
Confusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2012, 08:22 AM   #19
timberwolf0122
Web Wheeler
 
timberwolf0122's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 14,527
I'll take some of this into account when I finaly get round to fixing my dw.
__________________
Atheist Jeep Club Member #2
MacGyver Club Member #1
Doctor Who has died 10 times, is on his 11th regeneration and has a time machine, beat that Jesus.
I think he's calling his Jeep "Tardis," which is British slang for pimp mobile. - Dangfoo
timberwolf0122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2012, 08:29 AM   #20
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
Good point on the amount of force applied on the track bar. I have no problem being proven wrong but I've got a ton of driving to do over the next week and don't want to mess what is currently working. Seriously, I would love to prove one way or the other but that will have to wait until a better time.

This is exactly why I said this is what fixed my DW and not that I had found the cure for all DW . The experiences and explanations of others were a very big help with my understanding of the issue. Unfortunately due to limited time I had to do the shotgun approach versus making one change at a time.

At least I didn't post up for help, ignore and/or argue with good advice, then never post up any of my results
I understand, but what you need to understand is how BS DW solutions gain ground with the ignorant. We used to have one guy on here that absolutely insisted that too much toe in was the cause of all DW. He had video and everything to prove it. What his feeble brain failed to recognize is we use toe in and toe out to diagnose bad upper control arm ends.

If you've fixed all the other bad stuff and still have DW, you can find out if the uppers are dying or bad by toeing it way out and seeing if the DW goes away. If it does, there is a good chance the uppers are bad. You can also put them in a bind if you have adjustables by making one slightly longer and find out that way.

His premise was highly flawed because you can't take all rigs, toe them in correctly and induce DW, just as you can't hide all DW by toeing it out.

Plus, the bolt solution is very often touted as a fix for something when it's not a fix for anything but lack of maintenance when you let one get loose and ruin the bracket.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 10:00 PM   #21
NITBRubicon
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: , CDA, Idaho
Posts: 180
This is a follow up to my death wobble "woes"...

DW would occur at 37+mph randomly, and most definitely with bumps in the road (on/off ramps, expansion joints, etc.) . When I put on my 35's DW drastically increased. Here's a list of my upgrades and outcomes...

1. Alignment and balance. DW still occurred.
2. Brought back for a check to ensure a proper alignment and balance. DW still occurred.
3. Currie HD steering. DW still occurred.
4. Track bar bolts tightened to spec + 20ft-lbs and new bolts (upper/lower), heim joint and bushing (RE-1600 track bar). DW still occurred.
5. Tires rebalanced. DW still occurred.
6. Replaced upper/lower control arm bushings all around (RE 4.5 SF SA) with Daystar polyeurethane. Serviced and tighted the superflex joints. DW still occurred.
7. Dry steer test...bad upper Currie drag link TRE...only 6 months old. Replaced upper Currie drag link TRE due to excessive movement/failure either to over greasing and/or DW encounters (most likely DW encounters). DW still occurred.
8. Stopped at the local brew store and got some IPA ingredients with high alpha acids for my next all grain batch...DW still occurred.
8. Brewed an awesome IPA (**lightbulb** zzz...zzz) and during my wort boil I checked my lower track bar bolt. Lower bolt had a solid 1/16" play in it. Note this was not noticeable during the multiple dry steer tests, nor were there signs of movement. DW still occurred, but at least I had a great beer fermenting.
9. Transferred the fruits of my labor to secondary, dry hopped it, and ordered Currie CE-9210 TJJ trackbar. Currie trackbar arrived, drilled out the lower end to 1/2", installed the new beef and...........boom..........DW gone.

Fingers crossed as it's only been a week and 400 miles, but no issues so far. Hope this helps someone out there and learns the headache I've finally cured (and not from the tasty beverage).

If DW comes back I'm going to brew another IPA, set toe out, check the upper control arms...and go from there.
NITBRubicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 10:17 PM   #22
RaggedOleMan
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: , Sane's Ville
Posts: 2,339
Wow...it can be a real bugger can't it? We had similar scenario's, except for the brewing part. That's probably why resolving my DW took so much longer! Nice work, man..
RaggedOleMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 10:26 PM   #23
NITBRubicon
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: , CDA, Idaho
Posts: 180
Thanks for your insight John...you definitely helped me diagnose this nasty issue. See you on the trail.
NITBRubicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
death wobble , dw , track bar
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.