mesh windjammer? - Page 31

**grogie** · 07-29-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buellwinkle

If I use the tabs on the door surrounds, what is that, 1/2 second to pull them out and put the soft top on, no biggy and it's still strapped to the front and back so it's not going anywhere. I would sell the TJ before I would put a tarp with ball bungees and brass grommets on the jeep, afterall, it's a mall crawler, can't have the people at Nordy's think I'm a real Jeeper

Yeah, those bungees and grommets might get you laughed at out in the woods by real Jeepers.

As SpiderWeb said, it doesn't require a header or door window channels, doesn't flap in the wind, plus I do put back on my hardtop over it during the week. I also had rear seat passengers last weekend that had plenty of head room.

buellwinkle · 07-29-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiderWeb

I am afraid some of you guys are missing the point. The SpiderWeb top does NOT use the header or the door window channels because when the top "floats" between the roll cage flapping is NOT possible. Plus you can throw all of your other tops right over it.

I think you are missing the point, my modified BestTop bikini does not use the header, it's optional to use the door window channels as it can also wrap the roll bar and for sure it doesn't flap in the wind at any point, it's dead solid, and it doesn't float in the middle where it cuts down on headroom, it sits tight as a drum on top of the roll bar. And did I say it doesn't have any brass grommets and ball bungees

Tufftoy · 07-29-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brew461

I am in aircraft upholstery. I haven't made mine yet, but you can bet it will be built just as well, if not better than the SW2. I have the materials in my shop as we speak.

By looking at where you are from, I think the AF would consider that just a little bit of fraud, waste and abuse.

**SpiderWeb** · 07-29-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buellwinkle

I think you are missing the point, my modified BestTop bikini does not use the header, it's optional to use the door window channels as it can also wrap the roll bar and for sure it doesn't flap in the wind at any point, it's dead solid, and it doesn't float in the middle where it cuts down on headroom, it sits tight as a drum on top of the roll bar. And did I say it doesn't have any brass grommets and ball bungees

I like the grommets and bungie balls.

**bman9089** · 07-30-2008, 12:08 AM

Any updates on the test units? I haven't received anything.

It's still completey up to you. I only ask because I'd like to help you improve your product before someone else makes the improvements (a few here have already stepped up to that).

If you are just going to leave it as it is, you don't need to send me one. Really, I'm not looking for any sort of hand out, I'd just like to help. But there's no sense in wasting your time and money and my time if you aren't interested in improving the top.

Things like the bungee balls and grommets will most likely have to go. Why? Because your customers want something else. I'll help you make other improvements, and I know other people will wait things out until the top is changed a bit. But if you have no plans of changing anything or simply don't want to, then with all due respect, please just be up front about it.

I can't tell where you stand based on your last post.

**grogie** · 07-30-2008, 05:36 AM

If some of you guys think that you can not only build a better top, but also do all the marketing, the patents and business details, etc., and keep the price competitive, then do it and stop *****ing at SW just to *****.

If people are wiling to buy your top over theirs, then SW will have to change theirs to remain competitive. That's the great thing about America. But obviously SW is selling their top and as far as I am concerned, it works great with the grommets and bungie ball, all for $60.

Longspoon · 07-30-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogie

If some of you guys think that you can not only build a better top, but also do all the marketing, the patents and business details, etc., and keep the price competitive, then do it and stop *****ing at SW just to *****.

If people are wiling to buy your top over theirs, then SW will have to change theirs to remain competitive. That's the great thing about America. But obviously SW is selling their top and as far as I am concerned, it works great with the grommets and bungie ball, all for $60.

x2

jeepwave · 07-30-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogie

If some of you guys think that you can not only build a better top, but also do all the marketing, the patents and business details, etc., and keep the price competitive, then do it and stop *****ing at SW just to *****.

If people are wiling to buy your top over theirs, then SW will have to change theirs to remain competitive. That's the great thing about America. But obviously SW is selling their top and as far as I am concerned, it works great with the grommets and bungie ball, all for $60.

I agree with a lot of these posts that Spiderweb needs to listen to his customers in order to improve and make better products. That's just good business. But for some people to state they would not buy it until such improvements are made and then to badmouth all his hard work is just wrong and counter-productive. I congratulate the Jeepers who can fabricate add-ons, bolt-ons, or whatever. I wish I had the wherewithall and resources to do my own fabrications. Unfortunately, I don't.

To me, saying that you won't buy the product because of the bungie balls and grommets because of "looks" is just funny. Do you hear yourselves? We drive a "shed on wheels". When the SW2 top is attached you don't even see it because it sits between the roll bars. I have the SW2 AND I do like the improvements to the SW3. Will I buy the SW3? Probably not because I am happy with the SW2.

I know this forum is mainly for hardcore jeepers (no chrome, black components, ixnay on mall crawlers). What is more utilitarian than mesh, grommets and bungie balls? Well, not so much bungie balls.

Ultimately, it's so simple in design I wonder why I didn't think of it. It's a shade top. It keeps the sun off of you when the top is down. To me, it has been a very functional item and have been very happy with it.

I DO like some of the "one-off" fabrications that people have come up with. Hopefully, Spiderweb will see that people are serious about this stuff and make an improved product. The difference here is that Spiderweb has a plan whereas everyone else just wishes they did.

Longspoon · 07-30-2008, 10:53 AM

I agree that producers need to listen to consumers, but can anyone say that he isn't? When he started he had one product the SW1 (3 piece), he then switched to the SW2 (1 piece), then after much consumer... er um... suggestion, he decided to keep producing the SW2 because some folks liked it, but instead created 2 completely products to fulfill the needs of folks who wanted more than just a 1 piece... I'd call that listening, hell he coulda started making hood bras, that certainly would NOT have been listening...

and good grief brass grommets are a deal breaker? For the love of Pete if a post on this forum isn't about swapping one part for a bigger part, it's about spray painting something. 14 quick shots from the old rattlecan and you can have pink grommets if you want... I thought to whole idea behind this community was acquiring stuff and then converting/modding/cutting/painting/pushing/pulling/twisting it until it's a one-of-a-kind work of jeep art that screams THIS IS ME!!!!

anyways... I don't own a SW nor have I fabbed my own so wtf am I to even be commenting right?

buellwinkle · 07-30-2008, 11:15 AM

The issue isn't brass grommets or pink ones as much as it's the ball bungees pinching the foam around roll bar that may cause irreversable damage and the look of the ball bungees. Just look at the picture above, looks like a fat woman in a black dress with tight belts around her waist.

I'm not trying to start a business selling them, Bestop and VDP have been here long before Spiderweb, I just made one that works for me and sharing what I found with other board members. Isn't that what the forum is all about? And do you really think $60 is fair when I can get a VDP for $30, modify it to not use the header for say $10 if you don't sew (real Jeepers dont' sew, LOL)? I just couldn't use the VDP because of my speakers so I used the Bestop that has provisions for the speakers.

cgmrdc · 07-30-2008, 01:33 PM

irreversable damage to the sport bar pads... are you serious... i dont even know how to repaond to that...i guess its cause mine are UV faded from having the top off and covered in mud from wheelin... as soon as the SW3 comes out i will be purchasing one... fat lady rolls and all... some people... let the guy sell his product... if you dont like it fine, but dont bash his product or his price... i know ive paid more for upgrades that would have a lot less work involved...

so keep us updated on the SW3 cause i want one

**bman9089** · 07-30-2008, 02:22 PM

No one is bashing anything about it. If there were any bashing or flaming, the thread would be locked.

We're giving suggestions for improvements so Chris can stay in business and make some more money on top of it. Besides a couple of ignorant comments here and there, most suggestions are little more than constructive criticism. And that's a good thing. How good of a product would we have if we were all just 'yes men' who didn't point out flaws?

How successful would Chris be if he was too stuborn to make changes? Both options lead to an inferior product.

So if anything, people are being honest with what they don't like. It's in his best interest to value customer's opinions, unless you don't want a business.

Welcome to America.

(I do wish we could create a poll for this, as I imagine those who would prefer bungie balls over straps would be in the minority, same goes for gromets)

And honestly, I'm glad you guys like the top. But don't get defensive when someone throws in constructive criticism to make it even better.

**Hayseed** · 07-30-2008, 02:42 PM

I have been anxiously awaiting the final SW3 to see what top steps up to the plate.

Since brass gourmets need to be painted black, IMO, that’s my plan of action if necessary whichever way I go.

From a structural standpoint, will the gourmets take more wear & tear then straps? It would seem to be a lot easier, unless you sew, to just replace a ball bungee when it stretches out than having to reinforce/repair a strap at its attachment point.

**bman9089** · 07-30-2008, 03:46 PM

I'm working on plans and measurements right now. I don't think straps would at all be a problem. If sewed right, they should hold up just fine and there's no extra pieces or bungies balls to store somewhere or lose.

**bman9089** · 07-30-2008, 05:23 PM

Here's a quick sketch of my plans. They are very rudimentary, so bare with me.

Keep in mind that this is if the rear roll bar didn't bend (the bend isn't visual, this is 2D).

The colored strips are straps. The red is the front piece, the green is the rear piece, and I haven't started the jammer yet. I'm not going to give away specifics, but the yellow top pieces are the bolts that go into the rollbar for the soft top door pieces. Straps go around those. The blue pieces in the rear are going to be sewn in pieces of plastic that will bend as you shape the top to the roll bar.

It'll do just as good a job as the current top, cover all areas without any gaps (except the front where the windshield visors and latches are, there's a small gap), but nothing on the sides, using straps with either buckles or velcro and the rear will bow keeping things tight and looking good.

These are small fixes but big improvements, IMO.

Let me know if you guys have any other suggestions.