long arm bushing questions,and more - JeepForum.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
long arm bushing questions,and more

i have stocked some parts and ready to start the front radius arms and have a few things i want opinions on..
1--i was gonna use jj,s at both ends but have a bushing i can use at the axle end also..what is better? i want to do whats more proper but if i can use a jj at both ends i will?
2--where the upper goes into the lower i am going to use a 2 inch narrow jj with a 9/16 hole and 1 inch shank.i see some use a jj bushing so i should be fine useing this i would think, and the other end can be fixed to bolt to the stock bushing like most ive seen?
3--my arms are going to be 32 inches eye to eye in the front and ive read the uppers should be 70% of the lowers?is this correct?
4-- is there a certain angle the brackets need to be welded on the lower arms where the uppers bolt to it? or just where it ends up when all lined up?
i was gonna mount the uppers on the axle, and mount to the lower where it landed in its straight line? am i thinking correct?ive read others done it that way also but would rather do it right the first time..
hopefully you guys can get me headed straight as this will be coming together in the next week..maybe start this weekend,thanks,john


JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 03:20 PM
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 20,457
1) JJ's at both ends is better. Go bushings on one end if you are on a tighter budget.
2) I'm not understanding this question. Upper goes into lower??? JJ bushing??? I don't get it.
3) Totally depends on what kind of suspension you're building--dual or single triangulation? What angle will the arms be at relative to the frame? That number only applies for some and even then, it applies somewhat loosely.
4) Again, you're talking about the lowers and uppers in one question. Are you using the poly mounts or something?

It sounds to me like you haven't done enough homework on suspension geometry. There are some GREAT threads on Pirate that should help straighten you out. Before you weld anything in, you should fully understand instant center, antisquat, linear and vertical separation, roll center, and how link placement effects all of that.....along with plenty of other stuff. I'll put up some good links for you once I get home from work.

OlllllllO

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

IndyORV
Imped is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
kuebelwagen
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rochester NH
Posts: 225
2. Radius arms up front, bottom arm is long, upper arm is short and connets to the long lower arm.

In love with, Suki.

Pain is weakness leaving the body.

2004 Rubicon
1995 Cherokee
kuebelwagen is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 03:50 PM
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 20,457
Oh. DUH. I'm not a RA fan so I wasn't really thinking about that. Yes, do it like most you've seen. The bushing is needed to keep the arm located

OlllllllO

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

IndyORV
Imped is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 04:19 PM
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 3,081
You would be best off by punting the radius arm set-up althogether if you can. If you are not climbing your rig, then it won't be some much of a problem but be aware that they have a propenswity to unload the front end on steep climbs. The only thing keeping my rig stable was the inherent bind that is in a radius arm arrangement.
Robert J. yates is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Oh. DUH. I'm not a RA fan so I wasn't really thinking about that. Yes, do it like most you've seen. The bushing is needed to keep the arm located
thats what i was wondering about..so yes i will use the summit machine bushings for the axle end up front..thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
You would be best off by punting the radius arm set-up althogether if you can. If you are not climbing your rig, then it won't be some much of a problem but be aware that they have a propenswity to unload the front end on steep climbs. The only thing keeping my rig stable was the inherent bind that is in a radius arm arrangement.
do you mean go a diffrent route? i dont think that will happen..i visit rock quarrys and do a lot of off camber hill climbs and a lot of very steep down hill stuff more than anything..i will have limit straps.not looking for a flex monster.it does fine like it is,,im wanting a lil of both but mainly better ride qaulity..
does anyone know of the upper front has to be 70% of the length of the lowers like ive herd? i think tommyr just bolted it to the axle and put the bracket on the long arm where it met in the right angle if i remember correct..wich probally equals out to the 70% thing ive read

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 07-29-2010, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
You would be best off by punting the radius arm set-up althogether if you can. If you are not climbing your rig, then it won't be some much of a problem but be aware that they have a propenswity to unload the front end on steep climbs. The only thing keeping my rig stable was the inherent bind that is in a radius arm arrangement.
im following your thread also"goodbye la hello sa"i cant wait to learn some more good to info but wish it were near the end instead of the begining lol

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
well my radius arms were finished and installed fri morning,feels great,rides very good compared to short arms and flexes the same for now till i get to re doing the shocks and another few things to get a lil more flex..glad i did it for sure..
it was worth the ride qaulity for my siatic nerves.
i will be making a place to suck down the axle on steep climbs if needed also.

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 10:57 AM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 31,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny9 View Post
i have stocked some parts and ready to start the front radius arms and have a few things i want opinions on..
1--i was gonna use jj,s at both ends but have a bushing i can use at the axle end also..what is better? i want to do whats more proper but if i can use a jj at both ends i will?
2--where the upper goes into the lower i am going to use a 2 inch narrow jj with a 9/16 hole and 1 inch shank.i see some use a jj bushing so i should be fine useing this i would think, and the other end can be fixed to bolt to the stock bushing like most ive seen?
3--my arms are going to be 32 inches eye to eye in the front and ive read the uppers should be 70% of the lowers?is this correct?
4-- is there a certain angle the brackets need to be welded on the lower arms where the uppers bolt to it? or just where it ends up when all lined up?
i was gonna mount the uppers on the axle, and mount to the lower where it landed in its straight line? am i thinking correct?ive read others done it that way also but would rather do it right the first time..
hopefully you guys can get me headed straight as this will be coming together in the next week..maybe start this weekend,thanks,john
You cannot use Johnny Joints from Currie in radius arms except at the frame end.

The low restricted movement from the JJ does not have enough bind to stabilize a wristed radius arm. The triangle needs to have clevite style bushings that have some give to them with enough stiffness to let the wrist turn out under articulation.

If you use poly, you will start tearing stuff up unless it's pretty stout.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is online now  
post #10 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
You cannot use Johnny Joints from Currie in radius arms except at the frame end.

The low restricted movement from the JJ does not have enough bind to stabilize a wristed radius arm. The triangle needs to have clevite style bushings that have some give to them with enough stiffness to let the wrist turn out under articulation.

If you use poly, you will start tearing stuff up unless it's pretty stout.
thanks,i need and respect your input. i have summit machine poly bushing thats greasable at the axle,1 1/4 shank jj,s at the frame,stock bushings on top of axle and the small narrow 1 inch jj,s at the y where the upper connects to the lower..since it was only 1 5/8 or so wide i shimmed it with washers to gain a 2 inch width so when it needs replacing i can go a diffrent route..currie sent me the wrong joint as i opped for a 2 inch wide joint there.

it drives and rides great..much better than before,but i do want things to be safe by all means..is something wrong with this set up? if so id really like to make it the best with less mulla the better lol.
i did a lil flex but no more than if on short arms due to needing to get my d.shaft a lil longer now..

edit,i just looked at claytons and mine look just the same at all ends,except i used round dom tube..hopefully im ok,more pics in my build thread.

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
also was wanting to get this axle end jj kit for my other axle before swapping it out..Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

will this be fine with my radius arm setup also,or should i stick to the clevite bushings in the axle uppers?

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 02:25 PM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 31,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny9 View Post
also was wanting to get this axle end jj kit for my other axle before swapping it out..Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

will this be fine with my radius arm setup also,or should i stick to the clevite bushings in the axle uppers?
Once your JJ's break in a bit and loosen up, the wrist will start flexing out sideways and rotating unless the poly bushing at the frame side can stop it the main arm from rotating. If it can stop the arm, then it's really going to stress your mounts, so keep an eye on things. I would not install the JJ axle kit with radius arms in your situation.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is online now  
post #13 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I would not install the JJ axle kit with radius arms in your situation.
thanks,i understand what you are saying.i will keep a eye on the mounts and everything for sure.
is there something better to use in building a radius arm set up than what ive used in your opinion?..i did months of reading to get me in ,what i thought was the right direction.

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 04:54 PM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 31,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny9 View Post
thanks,i understand what you are saying.i will keep a eye on the mounts and everything for sure.
is there something better to use in building a radius arm set up than what ive used in your opinion?..i did months of reading to get me in ,what i thought was the right direction.
On the surface it seems logical to put a better joint in the radius arms until you understand how they work. If they were really radius arms, you would need huge misalignment bushings at the ends of the fork to stop from twisting the tubes out or breaking the mounts.

Fact is, they are wristed radius arms and if you put highly flexible joints with little resistance in there, then the arms will rotate at the wrist under acceleration and braking.

If you look at any good radius arm design, they run clevite bushings or similar at the 3 points of the fork triangle. They need something stiff enough to stabilize the arm and soft enough to give under articulation.

The rig I'm currently working on started breaking mounts and tearing stuff up because the JJ axle kit was installed. It was running a modified radius rod style front arm.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is online now  
post #15 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
johnny9
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ocala,fla
Posts: 1,995
i feel i may be ok then since my arms are identical to claytons in there pics and others ive looked at also..i will keep an eye on them and post up any future problems..
i definitly wont be getting the jj axle end kit tho..thanks for getting me straight on that also..

JACK OF ALL TRADES,,,MASTER OF NONE

fla cracker head born and bred

build-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnny9 is offline  
Reply

Tags
bushing , long arm , susepnsion lift

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
Control arm bushing questions? Rukus TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 19 11-30-2009 09:31 PM
Shackle install and some bolt/bushing questions rustywrangler YJ Wrangler Technical Forum 17 09-25-2008 06:17 PM
body bushing questions green_jeep YJ Wrangler Technical Forum 1 06-06-2008 03:45 PM
Bushing questions bughunter YJ Wrangler Technical Forum 1 11-12-2006 04:59 PM
BB + Control Arm Bushing Questions Tshark299 TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 2 10-14-2004 09:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome