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Unread 09-14-2011, 10:23 PM   #91
grumpyxtreme
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Is there a reason you didnt choose the Psc dual cooler setup?
This one

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Unread 09-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #92
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Since this was asked about the dual cooler set up does anyone have any input on the addition of a plate cooler for the power steering? Specifically, is the pump able to deal with pumping the fluid thru a cooler? Is there any additional restriction added to the system by using a plate cooler?
I've got a B&M plate cooler that I could re-mount to the V-bar and use it as a PS cooler.

Thanks for input and sorry for the hijack.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 12:09 AM   #93
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
FYI - for those plumbing up a 42RLE tranny cooler...

The hot side is the lower line on the drivers side of the tranny - it's connected to the passenger side of the radiator.

The cold side (return to tranny) is on the upper drivers side of the tranny - it's connected to the drivers side of the radiator.

This was pointed out to me by another member on here (with an 06), and I verified it on my 04.



This shows the tranny fluid which normally would be routed to the passenger side of the radiator - this is the hot output of the transmission.

So...my junk is actually plumbed wrong, and I've been advising people wrong for a few years . dang it. and jerry, if i'm reading your write up correctly...you plumbed yours the same way I did, and we're both cooling the fluid before it enters the radiator, since the passenger side is not the return line, it is the inlet line.

The correct cooler plumbing should look like this:


so...might want to check how you plumbed your 42RLE cooler.
Wow, so Jeep DID switch the sides for the OE cooler on which is in and out. I'll have to correct that on mine and let Derale know.

So this change looks to be effective from 2003 and newer when the 42RLE was introduced. I'll update the above writeup by this weekend.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 06:57 AM   #94
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I don't think it really matters which side you disconnect from the radiator. You either get it before the cooler in the radiator or after the cooler. One way or another it's before the fluid goes back to the transmission, which is what you want.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 07:08 AM   #95
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Negative Ghostrider. You want the coolant to cool it first, then the exterior ambient air. It gets the coolest that way.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 07:14 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBTJ View Post
I don't think it really matters which side you disconnect from the radiator. You either get it before the cooler in the radiator or after the cooler. One way or another it's before the fluid goes back to the transmission, which is what you want.
I disagree. There is a possibility of the radiator heating your pre-cooled fuild if you go to the auxiliary cooler first.

The direction is important especially if you decide to add an auxiliary filter.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 07:16 AM   #97
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Your right, I was thinking it didn't matter which line was disconnected to do a drain of the system, DUH! Reading too many threads at different sites at once. But yes it's better to have the aux cooler installed before the factory cooler. Thanks for setting it up straight for me.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 07:23 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedMatt View Post
I disagree. There is a possibility of the radiator heating your pre-cooled fuild if you go to the auxiliary cooler first.

The direction is important especially if you decide to add an auxiliary filter.
Unless you live where it's really cold and you need the ATF to stay warm. Cold ATF is just as bad as too hot ATF.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 07:52 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedMatt View Post
I disagree. There is a possibility of the radiator heating your pre-cooled fuild if you go to the auxiliary cooler first.

The direction is important especially if you decide to add an auxiliary filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBTJ View Post
Unless you live where it's really cold and you need the ATF to stay warm. Cold ATF is just as bad as too hot ATF.
ok, you're both right.

I've been thinking about this...and i've had mine plumbed backwards, and my tranny temp gauge has been measuring the cold line back to the tranny. So what I've actually been seeing....if we assume the cold line is a good approximation to the average pan temperature (temp measurement method advocated by Blaine and Robert).

I have seen trans temps running almost too cold, when the ambient temps are quite cold. So there is a benefit to cooling the tranny fluid before it enters the radiator - so it can absorb heat from the coolant in the winter, when thats a good thing on warm up. On the highway that cold line has normally 160° or less after long travel distance & plenty of time for heat soak.

However, I've also seen very clear indication the trans temps increase with increased coolant temps. Wheeling, I've seen around 200° temps going back to the tranny when the radiator was heat soaked at 235°. So we can probably assume the trans temp without the pre-radiator cooler would be over 200°.

This brings me to my idea of a dual cooler system -



Here, the fluid is cooled before entering the radiator by a front mounted aux cooler. This would prevent tranny fluid from adding heat to the coolant, when the tranny fluid is very hot, say when towing. But it's also going to prevent the fluid from becoming too cold in the winter, since the coolant will transfer heat to the tranny fluid when the tranny fluid is cold.

Now, the aux cooler mounted under the tub, with a 180° switch (or temp/toggle switch of your choice) would only become active when the fluid going back to the tranny is 180° or above. So in the winter, this is likely inactive, but in the summer when towing a camper, or when generating a lot of heat (like the radiator is overheating), the fan kicks on and the secondary cooler becomes active.

Another option is to plumb the two coolers in direct series such that the fan only kicks in when the 1st cooler doesn't provide enough temperature drop.

Maybe those two systems are complete overkill....but consider my tranny has blown once I'll error on the side of overkill. Opinions?
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Unread 09-15-2011, 08:01 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
ok, you're both right.

I've been thinking about this...and i've had mine plumbed backwards, and my tranny temp gauge has been measuring the cold line back to the tranny. So what I've actually been seeing....if we assume the cold line is a good approximation to the average pan temperature (temp measurement method advocated by Blaine and Robert).

I have seen trans temps running almost too cold, when the ambient temps are quite cold. So there is a benefit to cooling the tranny fluid before it enters the radiator - so it can absorb heat from the coolant in the winter, when thats a good thing on warm up. On the highway that cold line has normally 160° or less after long travel distance & plenty of time for heat soak.

However, I've also seen very clear indication the trans temps increase with increased coolant temps. Wheeling, I've seen around 200° temps going back to the tranny when the radiator was heat soaked at 235°. So we can probably assume the trans temp without the pre-radiator cooler would be over 200°.

This brings me to my idea of a dual cooler system -



Here, the fluid is cooled before entering the radiator by a front mounted aux cooler. This would prevent tranny fluid from adding heat to the coolant, when the tranny fluid is very hot, say when towing. But it's also going to prevent the fluid from becoming too cold in the winter, since the coolant will transfer heat to the tranny fluid when the tranny fluid is cold.

Now, the aux cooler mounted under the tub, with a 180° switch (or temp/toggle switch of your choice) would only become active when the fluid going back to the tranny is 180° or above. So in the winter, this is likely inactive, but in the summer when towing a camper, or when generating a lot of heat (like the radiator is overheating), the fan kicks on and the secondary cooler becomes active.

Another option is to plumb the two coolers in direct series such that the fan only kicks in when the 1st cooler doesn't provide enough temperature drop.

Maybe those two systems are complete overkill....but consider my tranny has blown once I'll error on the side of overkill. Opinions?
There you go. My brother has a construction business building roads and bridges and such. He got a contract in Alaska and he had re route the cooling lines on his trucks in this manner.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 09:24 AM   #101
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Excellent write up Jerry, but I have a question. I know you spliced in the radiator for the inlet/outlet connections. One of the problems I see with the TJ and the 42RLE are the lines running directly past the two mini cats. Would it be possible to just run new shorter lines directly off the transmission to the new cooler and back?
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Unread 09-15-2011, 09:32 AM   #102
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I'll be back underneath my TJ this weekend to swap where the hoses connect to the radiator and I'll take a look at that area while I'm there. I don't recall being concerned about any hose's proximity to either of the two mini-cats.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 10:55 AM   #103
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Since this was asked about the dual cooler set up does anyone have any input on the addition of a plate cooler for the power steering? Specifically, is the pump able to deal with pumping the fluid thru a cooler? Is there any additional restriction added to the system by using a plate cooler?
I've got a B&M plate cooler that I could re-mount to the V-bar and use it as a PS cooler.

Thanks for input and sorry for the hijack.
Many of us who wheel in the desert run simple stacked plate power steering coolers. It won't hurt the stock pump a bit as long as you keep the cooler below the resevoir.

What you can see in the grill of my Jeep (barely) between the off-road lights is a Derale cooler on top of a Hayden cooler. The Derale is for my power steering and the Hayden is the first of 2 transmission coolers. The second transmission cooler is a under tub mounted B&M. The Hayden was actually my power steering cooler at one time as well.
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Unread 09-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #104
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I don't recall being concerned about any hose's proximity to either of the two mini-cats.
If you follow the path off the tranny, you'll see both hard lines run ~1/4" from both mini-cats as the hug the engine block till the rubber lines take over at the crank pulley. Actually, one of my lines was rubbing a cat's heatsink. That heatsink gets around 500-700°F, depending how much fuel you're feeding the motor (open loop vs closed loop). Not the brightest design... I insulated those hot areas with header wrap.

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Originally Posted by Best4x4 View Post
Would it be possible to just run new shorter lines directly off the transmission to the new cooler and back?
I think you could pipe the cooler off the tranny, but the front driveshaft passes within very close proximity to the output line. Look and see all the gymnastics the hard line does to avoid the clearance issues. So...if you could bend your own hard line up out of the way, possibly routing it backwards toward the t-case, then flare the end to attach a compression fitting with a brass hose barb...you should be in business. Problem I foresee there is all the flare & bending tools you'd need...which probably costs under $100...but you'd burn through a lot of tubing before you got good at bending it, and now the expenses get a little nutty....
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Unread 09-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #105
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Yeah when I do this mod I'll work out the line clearance issues (wish I had the $$$ to do it now!!!). I have a 1.25 BL so I'll have more room, but I think it would be worth it in the end because the OEM design of running past the two mini cats just seems to me like it would make the tranny temps worse. I think by eliminating that added heat and going straight to the cooler the tranny would stay much cooler.

I crawled under my Jeep after posting earlier and I would install a threaded nipple into the upper transmission line and route the line over the transfer case and to the cooler (or cut the metal OEM line and then connect the cooler hose). With the lower hose I'd probably cut the OEM metal line and then use that hose with the Derale kit that has that nice bend in it to send it towards the back and next to the other line (if the pressure in the system isn't to high). That would keep everything away from the mini cats and the drive shaft.
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