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Unread 09-03-2011, 05:14 PM   #46
Robert J. yates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckelhead

If you monitor the temperature of the transmission output line, you know how hot the transmission fluid is getting...
LOL..... you've been chiming in with that nonsense for years. One of the best transmission guys on the west coast whom Blaine referenced, does not see the need to know that and as Blaine said, if that is good enough for Joe, then it's good enough for me. All that matters is the temp of the ATF in the pan. Either your cooler works or it doesn't. Either your transmission is hot or it's not. I bet you have one of this fancy dual senders for your trans gauge on your junk too.

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Unread 09-03-2011, 05:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby J. yates View Post
LOL..... you've been chiming in with that nonsense for years. One of the best transmission guys on the west coast whom Blaine referenced, does not see the need to know that and as Blaine said, if that is good enough for Joe, then it's good enough for me. All that matters is the temp of the ATF in the pan. Either your cooler works or it doesn't. Either your transmission is hot or it's not. I bet you have one of this fancy dual senders for your trans gauge on your junk too.
And "Bobby the Troll" shows his face again!...
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Unread 09-03-2011, 06:01 PM   #48
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I prefer to know how hot the ATF is getting so I know if I need to shut it down or not. I installed a sensor in all 3 locations just for the fun of it. Output line, input line and transmission pan using a switch to monitor between the three. I do not have an external cooler as of yet, but I know that if the fluid is running thru a cooler the ATF will be cooler, DUH!, Temps were input line was 20~30 degrees cooler than output line, stock cooler works. Pan temps were 10~20 degrees cooler than output line. I assumed the fluid was not as cool due to it being in the pan which is already hot. So I really don't care about the input or pan temps as I know it will be cooler than the output line.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 06:11 PM   #49
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I prefer to know how hot the ATF is getting so I know if I need to shut it down or not.
I agree...
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Unread 09-03-2011, 06:21 PM   #50
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One thing for sure with the Derale cooler is that if the fan is on, the transmission fluid coming out of the OE cooler has hit 180 degrees which means the transmission is even hotter. No need for a gauge to know that. I'll be adding a gauge anyway but that fan coming on is a pretty fair indication the tranny is no longer running cool. The fan coming on is not likely to be unnoticed while offroad, it puts out a very audible roar.

Which means if the fan isn't on, odds are very good the transmission is not hot.

And let's get back on topic please, this really is not the thread to argue where the temp sensor for a transmission temperature gauge should be placed. That has been discussed many times in other threads.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 06:28 PM   #51
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I kinda like seeing the transmission fluid total temperature, but thats just me...
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Unread 09-03-2011, 07:18 PM   #52
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With my engine skid, I don't have room to put an temp sensor that sticks out past the pan. I could probably grind clearance holes or something, but I can already barely get my pinky finger around the whole pan as it is. The 42RLE is a fatty.

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Originally Posted by Knuckelhead View Post
If you monitor the temperature of the transmission output line, you know how hot the transmission fluid is getting...
That was my thinking as well, and here's why - If I'm reading the fluid flow diagrams in the FSM for the 42RLE correctly (pg 21-179 to 21-183) ....no guarantee there ...the fluid leaving the torque converter returns to the throttle body via the "converter clutch switch valve", where it is then routed to jeep's idea of a cooler. This is where Jeep engineer's think the fluid is the hottest...which makes sense - it's leaving the TC where the most amount of heat is generated. In addition the 42RLE gets the wonderful pleasure of having both lines routed less than 1/4" from two cats with heatshields running 600+. Therefore, if you monitor the temperature on the hot side line, before the radiator & after the cats, you will see the hottest temperature the transmission fluid is reaching.

FWIW, the 42RLE's factory temp sensor is located in the "transmission range sensor", and its monitoring the sump temperature in the valve body - which is the first stop after returning from the cooler. I'm hoping someday Scangauge can figure out the X-Gauge commands to access that sensor in the PCM because I'm curious, but i see no use in monitoring the fluid where it's cold.

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Originally Posted by robncar View Post
I got the line sensor mount (inductive) from Unlimited04 as he was kind enough to part with one.
I wanted to see how accurate that little bugger was, and I have since spliced in a new sensor into my tranny line before the radiator and after the cats. The little inductive heatsink does pretty good if you wrap it up with heat shield, and it does see heatsoak if you've been on the highway running open loop & higher RPM's for over maybe 30 minutes, and it'll show a bit higher than actual temps. With my little Derale 13.5k GVWR passive radiator style cooler, it barely ever jumps over 160. Today with 70 ambient temps, the winch cover on, a stiff headwind & 300lb load, I drove an hour at 75-80mph and it never went over 160...average was probably around 130 judging by the B&M gauge.

and my rational is if thats the hottest the tranny is getting, i'm quite happy with the position of the sensor on the hot side line. the PCM will see cooler fluid in the sump, which is exactly what you want.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
FWIW, the 42RLE's factory temp sensor is located in the "transmission range sensor", and its monitoring the sump temperature in the valve body -
Where did you find that? My '04 FSM says the transmission's temperature is only "calculated" based on "torque converter slip speed, gear, engine temperature, and vehicle speed".
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Unread 09-03-2011, 07:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Where did you find that? My '04 FSM says the transmission's temperature is only "calculated" based on "torque converter slip speed, gear, engine temperature, and vehicle speed".
Jerry, its on pg 21-178 to 21-183. The "calculated" temps occur when the temp sensor fails.

Honestly, i'm thinking a dual cooler is the way to go...a passive radiator finned style, like a B&M, Derale or whatever, and a cooler + temperature activated fan under the tub, like the "fancy" Derale in this write up. Then you're not kicking on the fan when you don't really need to, and you're using ambient air temps to your advantage more.

For example, if the passive cooler keeps you at 130-150 on the highway unloaded, you're doing good, but if you start pulling a trailer up the mountains...and you see the hot side temps climbing, you know the second cooler is going to kick in as necessary. IIRC, I think Knucklehead or somebody around here had/has a setup like that...

wasn't trying to argue here or on WF...trying to think this dual cooler thing through...
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Unread 09-03-2011, 07:46 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
IIRC, I think Knucklehead or somebody around here had/has a setup like that...
Yes I do and it works well for my setup.

I also have an indicator light next to the transmission temperature gauge to let me know when the B&M transmission cooling fan kicks in at a known temperature (I have an adjustable rheostat installed on the B&M fan), one sending unit on the transmission output line for the temperature gauge...


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Unread 09-03-2011, 11:02 PM   #56
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I can second Knucklehead's observations. I placed my fanned B&M almost identical to the way he did. I had to because of my RE long arms. I have a Cyberdyne digital temp gauge and indicator light as well that tells me when the fan is on. In the summer temps here in the valley I run between 155-170. Mine is a 98 with the 32RH. I did an identical setup on on my dads 03 with the 42RLE and his runs 175-190. The temp sender is on the output line before the cooler. This tells me the temp of the fluid AFTER it has done its job in the trans and give what I consider to be a more accurate idea of what the trans is operating at.

And Jerry...great write-up on your install. If I had a SA suspension then that would be how I would've done mine. Nice work Sir.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #57
Robert J. yates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04

Jerry, its on pg 21-178 to 21-183. The "calculated" temps occur when the temp sensor fails.

Honestly, i'm thinking a dual cooler is the way to go...a passive radiator finned style, like a B&M, Derale or whatever, and a cooler + temperature activated fan under the tub, like the "fancy" Derale in this write up. Then you're not kicking on the fan when you don't really need to, and you're using ambient air temps to your advantage more.

For example, if the passive cooler keeps you at 130-150 on the highway unloaded, you're doing good, but if you start pulling a trailer up the mountains...and you see the hot side temps climbing, you know the second cooler is going to kick in as necessary. IIRC, I think Knucklehead or somebody around here had/has a setup like that...

wasn't trying to argue here or on WF...trying to think this dual cooler thing through...
There are more than a few people running a dual cooler set up ..... I have a B&M stacked plate sitting in the grill and a B&M fan driven cooler under the tub. My gauge is handled by a sender set in the pan.

My trans typically runs at 150* even in 100* weather and I have to be towing a trailer to kick the fan on for secondary cooler but listening to some of you guys and all your fancy gauge BS, it sounds like you are all running 300* trans temps and your junk is gonna explode just running to the 7-11.

Auto trannys need a decent pan temp, good fluid AND routine maintenance not fancy triple gauges and assorted other junk. It's not rocket science like some folks would like to profess. More Internet BS.
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Unread 09-04-2011, 07:41 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by sduncan View Post
I can second Knucklehead's observations. I placed my fanned B&M almost identical to the way he did. I had to because of my RE long arms. I have a Cyberdyne digital temp gauge and indicator light as well that tells me when the fan is on. In the summer temps here in the valley I run between 155-170. Mine is a 98 with the 32RH. I did an identical setup on on my dads 03 with the 42RLE and his runs 175-190. The temp sender is on the output line before the cooler. This tells me the temp of the fluid AFTER it has done its job in the trans and give what I consider to be a more accurate idea of what the trans is operating at.

And Jerry...great write-up on your install. If I had a SA suspension then that would be how I would've done mine. Nice work Sir.
I agree, knowing how hot the fluid is (total temperature), is important for knowing if your damaging the fluid and/or transmission...
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Unread 09-04-2011, 08:39 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Knuckelhead View Post
I agree, knowing how hot the fluid is (total temperature), is important for knowing if your dammaging the fluid and/or transmission...
You all do it however you like. I'm going to trust the guy that knows more about building automatic transmissions that the sum total of all of you combined and I'll bet good money that not a single poster in this thread so far has ever rebuilt an auto tranny.
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Unread 09-04-2011, 08:54 AM   #60
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You all do it however you like. I'm going to trust the guy that knows more about building automatic transmissions that the sum total of all of you combined and I'll bet good money that not a single poster in this thread so far has ever rebuilt an auto tranny.
By myself?

Nope.

With the help of someone who knows what they're doing?

Yes I have.

Why not have your expert post up on here with his input to help with the discussion? (Not dissing you)

Input is always welcome...
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