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Unread 09-02-2011, 08:15 PM   #31
F9K9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Good question. Unless you wheel in salt water, no worries with it getting wet from water. You would not want to drive through deep water with the fan on but you could wire in a simple on off switch for that possibility... much like owners of jeeps with electric radiator fans do if they play in deep water.

Of course the fan will not normally be on so the need to turn the fan off when you're in deep water should be a rare event.
I was hoping that you would come to the same conclusion that I had. An override off switch would make me a little more comfortable. I have both the override on and off switches on an efan mod to my expedition rig but, have had to rarely use them .

A really nice write up and it made me stop straddling the fence. Thanks!

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Unread 09-02-2011, 08:53 PM   #32
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Great write-up! That's the way it should be done! Sadly, I have an air tank there.

Although a manual switch is still a good idea, the fan should turn off on its own nearly instantly once water gets deep enough to touch the cooler. Assuming the cooler is doing its job, the fluid going through it is at most 10 degrees hotter than the shutoff temperature of the thermostat. The moment the bottom edge of that cooler touches water, the temps are gonna drop like a rock. You'd be hard pressed to submerge the entire cooler fast enough to catch it with the fan still being powered, since the fan is on top. It may still be free spinning by the time water gets to it if you're really attacking a deep water crossing, but it won't do any damage like that.

tl;dr: A manual switch is nice for peace of mind (I'd still put one in), but most likely unnecessary.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cresso View Post
Great write-up! That's the way it should be done! Sadly, I have an air tank there.
There's no reason I can think of it can't be mounted just as easily on the passenger side. The frame mount's pivot point would be at the front but that could be compensated for by simply moving the mount back a tad.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cresso View Post
Great write-up! That's the way it should be done! Sadly, I have an air tank there.

Although a manual switch is still a good idea, the fan should turn off on its own nearly instantly once water gets deep enough to touch the cooler. Assuming the cooler is doing its job, the fluid going through it is at most 10 degrees hotter than the shutoff temperature of the thermostat. The moment the bottom edge of that cooler touches water, the temps are gonna drop like a rock. You'd be hard pressed to submerge the entire cooler fast enough to catch it with the fan still being powered, since the fan is on top. It may still be free spinning by the time water gets to it if you're really attacking a deep water crossing, but it won't do any damage like that.

tl;dr: A manual switch is nice for peace of mind (I'd still put one in), but most likely unnecessary.
You should examine what the air tank is really doing for you and then dispense with it.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:08 PM   #35
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Jerry, that idea sounds good for some if it'd clear the exhaust. Would it?

I also have long arms that I suspect will interfere with a cooler mounted in that location on either side. Blaine, I realize your response to long arms is the same as your response to an air tank. Be that as it may, I'm not prepared to make that many changes to accomodate this kit's mounting location. I like the cooler, but I'll get a generic version of it and mount it elsewhere if I get it at all.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:14 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cresso View Post
Jerry, that idea sounds good for some if it'd clear the exhaust. Would it?

I also have long arms that I suspect will interfere with a cooler mounted in that location on either side. Blaine, I realize your response to long arms is the same as your response to an air tank. Be that as it may, I'm not prepared to make that many changes to accomodate this kit's mounting location. I like the cooler, but I'll get a generic version of it and mount it elsewhere if I get it at all.
I don't know that it's the same. I do know that most folks in general lack much understanding about what an air tank does for them and only have one due to their ignorance of such.

If you have a York based system, the only thing the air tank is doing for you is collecting oil and cooling the compressed air charge slightly with some amount of surge buffering.

If you have a non York that lacks the same CFM at useable pressure, then it's doing nothing for you except adding expense, complexity, and taking up real estate. I don't think I've ever said that about long arms, have I?
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:27 PM   #37
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I have a York system. For what it's worth, I ran the first year of having OBA without the tank and only used it for airing up tires. If that was my only use, I never would've put the tank on. I switched my Rubicon lockers to the OBA system after breaking both of the factory pumps. I put the tank in at that time on the basis of reducing the York cycling while on the trail. I haven't found anyone else using OBA for their Rubicon lockers, so there wasn't a lot of first hand experience to build on. Having run it myself now, I can say that the tank does cut down on York cycling, but that's really not necessary. There's no harm in having the York click on, say, 10 times for 2 seconds during a trail run instead of once for 45 seconds.

I don't know that you've said that verbatim about long arms. I'm fairly certain there won't be any Savvy long arm kit for TJs, though.

And now I'm derailing a fantastic write-up. My apologies, Jerry.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 05:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I won't know that until after the B&M temp gauge gets installed...
Unless you've already made the purchase on the B&M gauge, may I suggest the Autometer 2640? It's a better quality gauge than the B&M, in my opinion, and looks great in combination with the stock instrument panel gauges on the late model. I had ordered both gauges, compared them side to side, and went with the Autometer. Ours is installed in the blank panel to the right of the factory switch location and almost looks OEM.

Nice write-up, by the way...

Since we may run a cylinder at some point, might move away from the B&M stacked plate in front of the radiator and go to the Derale to regain the space needed for the PS heat sink.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 11:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cresso View Post
Jerry, that idea sounds good for some if it'd clear the exhaust. Would it?
I meant to come back on this today with a clarification. It could be made to work on the passenger side but you'd need to get longer hoses and extend the power lead since you'd still want to run them on the driver's side, away from the exhaust and in particular the catalytic converter.

Mounting the cooler on the passenger side would certainly not be as easy as it is on the driver's side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robncar View Post
Unless you've already made the purchase on the B&M gauge, may I suggest the Autometer 2640? It's a better quality gauge than the B&M, in my opinion, and looks great in combination with the stock instrument panel gauges on the late model. I had ordered both gauges, compared them side to side, and went with the Autometer. Ours is installed in the blank panel to the right of the factory switch location and almost looks OEM.

Nice write-up, by the way...

Since we may run a cylinder at some point, might move away from the B&M stacked plate in front of the radiator and go to the Derale to regain the space needed for the PS heat sink.
I had an Autometer transmission temp gauge on my last TJ and it worked fine. However, Autometer doesn't include nor do they offer (I called Autometer on this) the very cool/very easy to install brass t-fitting that the temperature sender just threads into as B&M does. I spent an entire day trying to find a way to take a standard t-fitting and convert it so it could directly accept the sender like B&M's does. I gave up and had Blaine braze the right type fitting onto a t-fitting so it'd work. So just for ease of installation this time, I'm going for B&M's which is a much easier installation.
I'm not ready to pull the tranny pan and weld a bung into it for the temp sender as I did before either when I had temp senders at two different locations.

I guess I could order Autometer's gauge and B&M's t-fitting but....
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Unread 09-03-2011, 11:15 AM   #40
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nice write up jerry. i thought the line on the passanger side radiator was the output or hotline from the trans.would you please clarify witch line on trans is the output and input .iput a digital temp gun on the lines and it shows the the lower is the output. this seems to opposite per your write up .sorry for the stupid question . i may have the cooler plumbed in after the factory cooler. thanks steve
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Unread 09-03-2011, 11:46 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by pumpman55 View Post
nice write up jerry. i thought the line on the passanger side radiator was the output or hotline from the trans.would you please clarify witch line on trans is the output and input .iput a digital temp gun on the lines and it shows the the lower is the output. this seems to opposite per your write up .sorry for the stupid question . i may have the cooler plumbed in after the factory cooler. thanks steve
The passenger-side line leaving the cooler is what returns the ATF back to the transmission so yes, per the writeup, the passenger-side line is the output side from the OE transmission cooler that feeds the new Derale auxiliary cooler.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 12:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I meant to come back on this today with a clarification. It could be made to work on the passenger side but you'd need to get longer hoses and extend the power lead since you'd still want to run them on the driver's side, away from the exhaust and in particular the catalytic converter.

Mounting the cooler on the passenger side would certainly not be as easy as it is on the driver's side.

I had an Autometer transmission temp gauge on my last TJ and it worked fine. However, Autometer doesn't include nor do they offer (I called Autometer on this) the very cool/very easy to install brass t-fitting that the temperature sender just threads into as B&M does. I spent an entire day trying to find a way to take a standard t-fitting and convert it so it could directly accept the sender like B&M's does. I gave up and had Blaine braze the right type fitting onto a t-fitting so it'd work. So just for ease of installation this time, I'm going for B&M's which is a much easier installation.
I'm not ready to pull the tranny pan and weld a bung into it for the temp sender as I did before either when I had temp senders at two different locations.

I guess I could order Autometer's gauge and B&M's t-fitting but....
I just installed the Autometer into the TJ I'm working on and brazed the bung into the oil pan that they have available. I won't do it any other way due to Joe at Westminster telling me the same thing I tell everyone.

Why do you care what the cooler line temp is? The only temp that matters is what temperature your trans is and that's read in the oil pan.

Good enough for Joe, it's way good enough for me.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 12:36 PM   #43
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I installed the first temp sensor into my previous TJ's tranny pan Blaine, it was you who suggested I install a second temp sensor into the return line so with a switch I could monitor both points. So there must be some value monitoring the temp of the ATF flowing through the return line. I'm just not ready to drop the pan and weld a bung into it right now but that is my plan for a bit later. When I add the pan sensor, I'll add a switch too.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 02:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Why do you care what the cooler line temp is? The only temp that matters is what temperature your trans is and that's read in the oil pan.
If you monitor the temperature of the transmission output line, you know how hot the transmission fluid is getting...
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Unread 09-03-2011, 05:11 PM   #45
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I have a sensor on the output line and in the pan with a switch. I can monitor the delta. Jerry, yep I recall the tee fitting in the B&M kit. I got the line sensor mount (inductive) from Unlimited04 as he was kind enough to part with one. I added the pan bung when I serviced the trans and went to the larger Mopar pan.

Sent from DROID2
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