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Unread 06-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #1
DeltaBCTJ
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Jeep Turbo Diesel Swap?

Hello,

I have a Jeep TJ that the motor is on its way out ( ticking time bomb in the literal sense )

I'm looking to replace the motor, and I can rebuild it myself but with the horrible price of gas I'm thinking of doing a 4cylinder or 6cylinder Turbo Diesel swap.



I came across this http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdiconversions.htm I even went down to the shop to have a look.

They currently have a TJ getting the install done and a brand new JK! They have kits available for a YJ and a TJ currently the JK I saw was the development mule I was told.

Has anyone seen any reviews of this online or in person? I know they are expensive but it would be one of those projects that actually pays you back every time you get fuel ( not gas ! ).

Any thoughts on this from anyone. I'm not looking for a dedicated off road machine, I already have 33's and a SYE with a 4" lift. Just something a little more economical and would still tow a light duty trailer.

Thanks for the insight Jeep Forum!

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Unread 06-27-2012, 12:57 PM   #2
Mboelts
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Well if you already have the motor and all the other parts they listed that you would need for the swap. Sure do it. But you looking at some serious coin for a swap to a motor that may produce more trq but less power. And I'm not sure how it is up in Canada, but here in the states diesel is about 25 to 40 cents a gallon more than regular gas. So while you might gain some mileage out of the swap, it would take a lot of miles to recoup the difference.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #3
JeepJake24
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Im looking at doing a 4BT swap sometime in the near future. My Jeep with the standard 4.0L gets about 13 MPG on average but what I'm hearing from the guys that have swapped to the 4BT is that they average anywhere from 28-30MPG. I would take a 40 cent hit per gallon to double my mileage. That being said, Diesel and Gas motor horse power numbers aren't even comparable. Most diesel motors only rev to about 3,000RPM and are all low end torque where as most gas motors rev over 5,000 RPM and dont hit their power band till about 3,000 RPM. What i'm trying to get at is that a Jeep with 150HP diesel would pull a Jeep with a 200HP gas motor backwards hands down, Horsepower is not a comparable number between gas and diesel motors.

My personal opinion is obviously "go diesel" , but I fear that the TDI motor may not be big enough for a Jeep that wants to runs 35"+ tires. If you want to do a bigger diesel then you have to remember that a dana 35, 30 or 44 probably wouldnt handle the torque of a diesel very well with 35" tires or bigger. Also your stock transmission and transfercase would see a lot more stress as well. A diesel swab would be a big project that can get expensive really fast.


Here are some sites where guys documented their 4BT diesel swaps. I know another swap that is getting popular is the 5cyl Mercedes diesels.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...swap-into-a-TJ

http://web.me.com/my96z28ss/Jeep/Welcome.html

http://lucienfrelin.com/jeepbuild/category/engine/
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Unread 06-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #4
064banger
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I thought the motor had to be from a Jeep that was the same year or newer for it to be street legal?
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Unread 06-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #5
JWebber
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There is also some company doing the jetta TDI engines in TJ's as well. Not cheap!
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Unread 06-27-2012, 02:28 PM   #6
DeltaBCTJ
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Well I dont have the motor, but I can get a front clip for 3k ish around here.

In Canada Diesel is cheaper then regular gas so it's all win on that side.

They showed me the dyno graphs for a the 4.0L from a 2006, and a 3.8 from 2010, the TDI with an ECU flash was making more HP and more TQ then the 4.0L. They would have tested mine but its on its way out and can barely muster up starting let alone putting down any power. I would have also needed to mop up the dyno after due to my Jeep marking its territory.

It'd be a 10k investmen no doubt, and resale wouldn't get it back but it might be a fun project I'm just on the fence. A friend of mine does have a 4bt truck and its horrible. Its loud, it vibrates like a sonofa... and its not particularly powerfull for the weight I just wanted something smaller, more economical to run. As far as I know here in our Province the motor going in has to be newer then the motor going out, which would be easy as the motors are from 2006, any TJ would be able to do the conversion here, I'm sure some states in the US are far more strict.

Jwebber, do you know this company your speaking of? any links choices would be a good thing too!

Anyway thanks for the discussion points, makes my day go by a bit quicker.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 02:35 PM   #7
chris86vw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepJake24 View Post
Im looking at doing a 4BT swap sometime in the near future.
Not a legal swap, you are in Florida so you'll be fine locally but be aware that the 4bt is not technically allowed to be installed in a light duty truck classification that the TJ falls into.

I'm going to have to relocate from GA for work in the next few months and wanting to keep my 4bt TJ literally dictates where I can live. Luckily it's on the border of 3 states, 1 that has no emissions and another that doesn't have them in that county.

Just something to be aware of and a reason why for many it isn't ideal.

While the VW diesel technically in the US (not sure about CAnada where the OP is) is not legal to swap into the TJ either since it is a different class of vehicle and a different manufacture it is still OBD2 compliant and in most states you'd be able to get away with it if the inspector didn't ask questions.

Both illegal.. TDI more easily able to be made to look legal.

Quote:
My Jeep with the standard 4.0L gets about 13 MPG on average but what I'm hearing from the guys that have swapped to the 4BT is that they average anywhere from 28-30MPG.
I don't know how or where those people drive but those figures are not even remotely realistic from my experience. With 4.10s and 31s I get about 17-18 and with 3.07s and 31s I get barely over 20mpg.

I do know of people who can get 20mpg out of a 4.0 TJ though, that is driving style more then anything, those people might get 28mpg out of one with a 4bt in it but if your current driving style is getting you 13mpg then don't expect to get anything near even 20mpg with the 4bt.



My current daily driver is a 2.0 CR TDI jetta wagon, I love it, slowest weakest car I own but I love it. I have a hard time imagining that engine in my jeep though and it is more powerful then the 1.9 being used in most of the swaps. The HPA kit is beautiful and well built in that regard I think it is great I just can't wrap my head around using the VW tdis in a jeep.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 02:54 PM   #8
JeepJake24
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Ya I dont plan on moving out of Florida, and if I did it wouldnt be for many years, My Jeep would probably just be a trailer queen by then anyways. As far as the MPG's with a 4bt Ive heard it plenty of times that guys get around 28MPG. If you search on 4BT swaps or find any other 4BT conversion into a TJ most guys will say the same thing. The first guy that i talked to that said he was getting about 28MPG he was running 35's and 3.73s with a turbo300 trans. I would personally run a NV4500 to have the low first gear and the nice overdrive. With my Jeep how it is, there is no possible way to pull 20MPG out of a tank, it doesnt matter how easy you drive it, you cant even get 15. Its just super heavy for a TJ.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 03:06 PM   #9
DeltaBCTJ
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I've phoned and asked to take the Sema YJ for a drive and they agreed!

So I'll report back my findings, I've got friends with stock to V8 TJ's and YJ's so I'll report back based on some experience.

They reported they were getting 25mpg in town 29mpg on the highway, and 18mpg if they drove it like they stole it, and that YJ is coming in at over 4000lbs! Hoping my TJ would be in the 30+ mpg range if I was able to do the swap.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 03:17 PM   #10
rkymtn05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepJake24
Ya I dont plan on moving out of Florida, and if I did it wouldnt be for many years, My Jeep would probably just be a trailer queen by then anyways. As far as the MPG's with a 4bt Ive heard it plenty of times that guys get around 28MPG. If you search on 4BT swaps or find any other 4BT conversion into a TJ most guys will say the same thing. The first guy that i talked to that said he was getting about 28MPG he was running 35's and 3.73s with a turbo300 trans. I would personally run a NV4500 to have the low first gear and the nice overdrive. With my Jeep how it is, there is no possible way to pull 20MPG out of a tank, it doesnt matter how easy you drive it, you cant even get 15. Its just super heavy for a TJ.
I don't think it's legal in Pennsylvania either because of the emissions laws too. I think I'm limited to either a stroker or a hemi. Maybe someone will help out on this. OP, if you want to get a little more power and a little more mpg, research swapping your injectors. I got a 1.7mpg increase around town and a good "seat of the pants" increase in power. Unless you're set on spending that much on the diesel swap then disregard what I said.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #11
chris86vw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepJake24 View Post
As far as the MPG's with a 4bt Ive heard it plenty of times that guys get around 28MPG.
I'm not sure what part of I own one is hard to understand, that goes a lot further then hearsay.

If you read any of the threads about mpg on 4bt swaps you'll find most of the people who have actually completed their builds in any vehicle laugh at those who assume you can get 28mpg regularly. Is it possible? yes. Will you want to kill yourself having to drive all the time in the style that would get you 28mpg? Based on the fact you get 13mpg out of your 4.0.. absolutely. Sorry but your already admitted driving style based on your mpg is not that of a person who would get 28mpg in a 4bt in a TJ without some major mental restraint of the right pedal.

Again I own one.. I can get 50mpg out of a diesel wagon rated at 42mpg.. I can barely get 21mpg out of a 4bt TJ that people claim they get 28mpg in!

My fuel logs from most of last year when i was daily driving it (pre gear swap note I was runnig 4.10s fwd while my shaft was out being balanced, after that was the 3.07s rwd. I was goign to the gym most mornings so into work was about 50/50 city highway and coming home was 30/70. August is when I got the wagon and stopped daily driving the TJ.

4/4 265 miles jeep 14.092
4/9 233 miles jeep 12.72
4/14 258 miles jeep 13.26
4/17 ? Miles swapped gears 7.14
4/29 244 miles jeep *12.45
5/6 260 miles jeep 12.395
5/12 225 miles jeep *12.73
5/17 246 miles jeeps 12.597
5/21 132 miles jeep*
5/22 141 miles jeep 7.765
5/26 239 miles jeep 13.00
6/1 *270 miles jeep 13.246
6/7 262 miles jeep 12.556
6/14**266 miles jeep 12.5
6/21 264 miles jeep 12.3
6/27 250 miles jeep *12.38
7/3 256 miles jeep 12.8
7/11 276 miles 13.03
7/24 213 miles 10.38
8/7 ??? Miles 12.4
8/13 262 miles jeep 12.75
8/23 ??? Miles jeep 12.627
8/27 238 miles jeep 12.403


(hadn't modified the tank for 19 gallons and have a wonky gauge hence the safe 12 gallon fill ups )


Also I had no plans to move from GA either ever.. then my company merged and is shutting down my office so I now get to move to WV.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #12
DeltaBCTJ
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Oh the motor needs more then injectors, its a timebomb in the most literal sense of the word, it ticks and its going to blow up. Its got quite low compression as I've beat er pretty good, Its going to need a new motor or a rebuild ( which then I would certainly take the tip of the injectors thanks ) I'm a euro car guy, which is why I'd like a diesel as they are far more common, and VW by far makes some of the best diesels in the world which is why when I came across this I had a " Hell YA! " moment.
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Unread 06-27-2012, 04:17 PM   #13
JeepJake24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
I'm not sure what part of I own one is hard to understand, that goes a lot further then hearsay.

No need to get upset. I understand that you own one. I am saying that Ive talked to plenty of other guys that own them too that say otherwise.

I think we could both agree that it all depends on your setup (which 4BT it is,what pump you are running, what turbo you are running, What trans you are running, what diff gears you run, tire size, weight etc,etc etc....) There are hundreds of different combinations that will affect the mileage you are getting and the power that you are receiving. I was only saying that you are the only person that I have talked to that said you could only get 20 MPG. I never admitted to having a heavy foot or a poor driving style for maximizing MPGs. I was simply stating that with a roof rack, one ton axles, 37s, full armor, tuffy tool box loaded with tools, etc... I have a heavy rig for a TJ. It weighs in somewhere around 6,000lbs.

Even if I were to only get 20MPG, paying for diesel 15 Gallons of diesel (assuming that diesel is $.50 a gallon more than reguar unleaded) would only cost me $7.50 more per tank and I would get over 100 more miles out of a 15 gallon tank. Plus all of the extra power that I would gain would be worth spending money on the swap to me.

Lets not have another famous JF thread of people getting pissed off at eachother over the difference between sand and dirt.

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Unread 06-27-2012, 04:19 PM   #14
JeepJake24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkymtn05 View Post
I don't think it's legal in Pennsylvania either because of the emissions laws too. I think I'm limited to either a stroker or a hemi. Maybe someone will help out on this. OP, if you want to get a little more power and a little more mpg, research swapping your injectors. I got a 1.7mpg increase around town and a good "seat of the pants" increase in power. Unless you're set on spending that much on the diesel swap then disregard what I said.
What injectors are you running??
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Unread 06-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #15
JeepJake24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
I'm not sure what part of I own one is hard to understand, that goes a lot further then hearsay.

Sorry for the Multiple posts.

Just though about this, but Im just making sure, you did change your speedo gear when you swapped gears right?

Also Im curious about what pump, turbo, and trans you are running.

Last, Im curious as to what RPMs you are running at certains speeds (35,45,55,65)

Thanks in advance for the info!! Just trying to further my knowledge base in the diesel swap world.
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