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Unread 06-24-2009, 01:36 PM   #91
Jeepguy1977
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OH the evil ideas......

And for those that talk about not needing high end in a jeep, they either don't have to deal with mud or don't play in sand at all. Actually, it was in the sand that I realized I need more power.

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Unread 06-24-2009, 02:12 PM   #92
94jeeperdrummer
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Well like you said, the 4.0l could spool a gt30r with relatively little issue.. its just the boost would be hitting at a higher rpm which isnt what you want for torque, just top end hp.. and jeeps really dont have top end.. unless your bogging or something, having 20 pounds of boost at 3200 rpm would probably just add to many broken parts.. assuming you had a build and forged internals in your 4.0l.. while having 7-8 psi at 1600-1800 rpm would equal awesome crawling power.. tho It may be hard to get used to boost spikes and tire spin when power hits.. If you want high hp #s and a top end, a gt30r would be better suited.. but then its probably better just spent on a road car..
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Unread 06-24-2009, 02:18 PM   #93
94jeeperdrummer
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plus keep in mind a small turbo will run out of air in higher rpm.. but its still pushing boost.. so even a small turbo will boost your top end because of all the extra air the engine never had experience before being f.i.'d

something im not completely sure on is how a non-fi engine responds to boost after adding boost.. IE the compression will still be normal of a non turbo jeep so you will still have the same torque around idle as a factory jeep.. meaning without boost the jeep still drives nice.. compared to low compression motors which tend to drive slow and boggy until reaching boost... any advice from boosted jeeps on how to compare their driveability around town before and after the boost would be appreciated..
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Unread 06-24-2009, 03:23 PM   #94
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I think a GT28 would be perfect for a jeep. I love the GT series turbos. I would get the ball bearing one for quick spool. It would be relatively easy to get someone to do a custom kit for it. I have a GT42 going on the mustang but that is a different beast

This guy put a turbo on his 60's lawn mower
http://www.vettesandperformance.com/
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Unread 06-24-2009, 03:53 PM   #95
Robert J. yates
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All you folks thinking that Jeep bottom ends won't hold up to forced induction need to go back to school. The real problem is the lack of kits that are emissions compliance and tuner friendly. Tuning Jeep Jtec OBDII is a real PITA...the bottom ends hold up just fine tho.
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Unread 06-24-2009, 04:00 PM   #96
Wheelin98TJ
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Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
All you folks thinking that Jeep bottom ends won't hold up to forced induction need to go back to school. The real problem is the lack of kits that are emissions compliance and tuner friendly. Tuning Jeep Jtec OBDII is a real PITA...the bottom ends hold up just fine tho.
After all the broken piston skirts I have seen and heard of, I would have to disagree with you on this.
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Unread 06-24-2009, 04:09 PM   #97
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as said before...turbos can provide power at the top end, or the bottom end, its all in what size you pick and when you want it to spool.

According to my calculations...and keep in mind I don't know squat about sizing turbos like the ricer crowd. For 6psi of boost: GT25 turbo with 0.63 A/R turbine housing or a T3O4E, 50 trim w/ 0.63 A/R turbine housing are both appropriate. I think a 0.82 A/R would also work, but will spool a bit later, while the 0.63 will make boost right off idle. The 0.63 A/R will be at its limited at 5000rpm for the 4.0L.

Turbo Calculators:
http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/20.shtml
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Unread 06-24-2009, 04:28 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by RichMcG View Post
Glad to see this thread resurrected from so long ago....lots of good info and opinions. I've been contemplating a turbo kit vs. supercharger kit as well. I see RIPP has a supercharger kit, and it seems 505, Adventure Innovations, and Ken Belle have kits as well. Looks like 505 is the only turbo kit available, but I'm wondering if a custom kit would be cheaper. I need to research my options is all.

From reading all the posts, I only saw 1 mention of a Garrett GT30 turbo and I'm surprised. Everyone is talking t3/t4, but to me that seems like a fairly undersized turbo for a 4.0L application. A GT2871r or GT3071r seems like it would do just fine. Both are available with .86 A/R turbine housings and are efficient well into the 20 psi range. However, I'm unsure of their usefulness in a 6-7 psi application. The 4.0L seems much too large to run a small turbo (GT25, TD04, K04), yet unable to use the higher boost available with larger ones. I could be way off base, so I'm looking for some insight.

A T3/T4 turbo would be great for a 4.0. Its small enough that it "should" spool really quick without needing a lot of throttle input....That is good for part throttle tq and acceleration, yet a T3/T4 will still support 400+rwhp with the boost turned up....(ofcourse that would be on race fuel).

A T3/T4 will easily make 12hp per LB of boost so.... if your Jeep is putting 120hp to the wheels stock, 9lbs of boost should get you 200+rwhp on pump gas without an intercooler or water injection, not to mention it would spool quick and make hella tq down low. I am just not sure at what RPM it will get full spool.... I would guess no later then 3000 rpms at WOT....but the key is getting them to make boost at part throttle and low, low rpms....THATS where you need it and THATS why you need a small turbo.

I am thinking a Garrett T3 Super 60 would be the ticket on a jeep. Still about 10hp per LB and fast spooling. I had one on my Hayabusa and it made 240rwhp at 10lbs, and thats only 1.3l.

HMMMM... Now yall have me thinking....
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Unread 06-24-2009, 04:30 PM   #99
Robert J. yates
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Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ View Post
After all the broken piston skirts I have seen and heard of, I would have to disagree with you on this.

Eh.....the crank is pretty tough and most of the Hesco guys don't mess with it until they get past the 300hp mark. Pistons...thats a quandry for sure but then I am unconvinced that its a widespread problem..same as the 0331 head.
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Unread 06-24-2009, 05:20 PM   #100
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well considering most people are suggesting 50 trim and larger turbos I think 300whp will be far surpassed with a efficient intercooled setup..
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Unread 06-24-2009, 05:56 PM   #101
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The problem with a turbo on a jeep would be water crossings. I'd be VERY afraid to crack the hot side pipes / hot side of the turbo. Turbos are much more a PITA than blowers due to all their oil requirements and super hot temps. Think about some off angle stuff and trying to keep the oil flowing!! There is no doubt that a turbo will make more power than a blower. Tuning the 4.0 is also not an option (from all i've heard so far there is nothing you can buy). You will fail smog too depending on where you live. (damn CA smog Nazis!!). The thing that would help the jeep the most is more off idle tq, and it already has a **** load.
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Unread 06-24-2009, 07:30 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by 94jeeperdrummer View Post
well considering most people are suggesting 50 trim and larger turbos I think 300whp will be far surpassed with a efficient intercooled setup..
definitely true, problem is there isn't enough space for one. much better off going with a meth/water injection system.

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Originally Posted by jgorm View Post
The problem with a turbo on a jeep would be water crossings. I'd be VERY afraid to crack the hot side pipes / hot side of the turbo. Turbos are much more a PITA than blowers due to all their oil requirements and super hot temps. Think about some off angle stuff and trying to keep the oil flowing!! There is no doubt that a turbo will make more power than a blower. Tuning the 4.0 is also not an option (from all i've heard so far there is nothing you can buy). You will fail smog too depending on where you live. (damn CA smog Nazis!!). The thing that would help the jeep the most is more off idle tq, and it already has a **** load.
you're half right. a turbo will end up mounting between the valve cover and the fender, about the same height as the stock intake box or headlight. If you've got water that high you've got bigger problems than a cracking turbo housing. Besides, as I already pointed out, strategically placed heat wrap, insulation and an oil cooler will help greatly. The oil requirements are the same as any blower - tap into the high pressure side on the rear passenger side of the block and dump it back into the pan. Since the turbo is pressurized with oil from the block, there is no 'angle stuff' to worry about. Turbos don't really care much about orientation and niether does a centrifugal blower for that matter. But a roots or twin screw blower definitely cares. As for tuning a 4.0L for boost - it can be done, but its not as easy as other vehicles. On a TJ, you'll need a piggyback ECU (Unichip or SplitSecond), a wideband O2 sensor capable of reading boost and bigger injectors. You then pay a dyno shop to dial in the A/F ratio across the RPM range. With the SplitSecond FTC-1 you can program your fuel and timing maps at home with a laptop. I've ridden in a turbo'd Rubicon - thats what he did - trial and error programming. The Unichip requires a Unichip certified shop w/ dyno to be programmed. Personally, I'd just get the FTC-1 and have a shop tune it.

You are correct in saying that you'll fail smog/emissions inspection with a turbo.

Go back and look at the thread & dyno chart linked on page 6. A great torque curve - 265+ ft-lbs at the wheels - with a turbo on a 4.0L
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Unread 06-25-2009, 05:59 AM   #103
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Since tuning the Jeep ECU is such a PITA, I think the best method for fueling a turbo motor would be to run a secondary fuel controller(a piggy back), then add a 2nd set of injectors to the intake. Yes it would be a PITA to drill and weld injector bosses into the 6 intake ports for the 6 extra injectors but once that is done, all you have to do is tune the controller. Off boost the jeep will run on its stock injectors and stock ECU tuning, once boost is made, the controller will see boost and fire the secondary injectors according to a prebuilt map to properly fuel the setup. Also there will be a 1:1 fuel regulator that will run the stock fuel pressure off boost, but once it sees boost, it will raise fuel pressure 1 psi for every LB of boost. The fuel controller to easily handle this is a MT2 from Microtech. I have this complete setup on my turbo hayabusa and it works great. I was able to make 435rwhp and still have stock like driveability off boost. I think this setup would be great on a jeep but it ain't cheap to do. I think it would be the most reliable setup. A wide band datalogger is a must.
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Unread 06-25-2009, 07:15 AM   #104
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The compression ratio on the 4.0 is perfectly fine for FI and the proper selection of turbo will yield a seamless increase in boost/power.
Forced Induction generates torque which results in increased power whether at full boost or partial boost.

You must realize, for a turbo, boost, for the most part, is linked to engine load and not rpm, unlike a belt driven supercharger. This means that off road while crawling you may not produce much if any boost due to relatively low engine load.

If you've ever driven a properly designed turbocharger vehicle you could observe that while encountering a hill, with no additional throttle input, boost will increase as load increases.

Few people are wanting of more power from the 4.0 while crawling. Where it lacks is breathing in the higher rpm range. Modern turbos can be configured to cover a wide range of rpm relative engine displacement and power goals.

I've thought about turbocharging my Jeep and may in the future. The turbo would be mounted high with ceramic coated turbine housing. It Would be intercooled using a water/air system with an electric fan on the heat exchanger. For boost levels in the 5-6 psi range a quality FMU like the BEGI would suffice. You could expect a theoretical increase in power of approximately 33% at that boost level. I would rely only on the WG to manage boost.

For the Jeep application there is no need for additional boost controllers... you already have two, the WG and the throttle.

Dyno graph of one of our 3.5l BMW builds. This with no 'boost' controllers on a 200K mile, 1986, 'junkyard' engine. Notice the nice broad torque curve.

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com...3&image_id=208
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Unread 06-25-2009, 07:46 AM   #105
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Ok, I wanna play too. I fully believe that a turbo system could be set up to work well on a Jeep. It would be complex, but it you had the know how and patience it could be done. The only legit concern for off-roading would be for people with snorkels and re-routed vent lines for water crossings. For a Jeeper with average or slightly above average knowledge and ability a stroker with a supercharger would be much simpler.
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