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Unread 09-09-2008, 06:51 AM   #31
Wheelin98TJ
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Originally Posted by Grants99TJ View Post
Damn all this and i just wanted a lil more power and the cool ppppfffffshhhhh sound when i shifted sounds like turbo is not the way to go thx guys...and girls
An ARB locker makes a cool ppppfffffshhhhh sound.

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Unread 09-09-2008, 06:55 AM   #32
JeepCherk98
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Well my opinion is, i would never put a turbo on a jeep, they are not made for racing, and the engines that they have , have plenty of power...lol, just my mmo
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Unread 09-09-2008, 07:16 AM   #33
Wheelin98TJ
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Originally Posted by JeepCherk98 View Post
Well my opinion is, i would never put a turbo on a jeep, they are not made for racing, and the engines that they have , have plenty of power...lol, just my mmo
All depends on how you use your Jeep.

I know I could certainly use more power which is why I started the V8 swap.

Wheeling on the dunes, in the mud, and in snow will be much more fun.
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Unread 09-09-2008, 08:19 AM   #34
sylgeist
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I agree with that. I looked at doing a turbo/supercharger and the cost to do it right was close to or more than just dropping in a V8. Obviously emissions are a factor in some areas so that might restrict you.

In my opinion the supercharger is the better way to go. It's a myth that turbo's don't have any parasitic drag on the motor - how do you think that exhaust gets out of the cylinders? It might be less than a supercharger, but there's no free power coming out of these things!
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Unread 09-09-2008, 11:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmac View Post
This thread from Redrock4x4 was doing the rounds back when I was considering a Turbo.

It's an excellent thread with lots of info and first hand experience.

Happy reading!

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f19/4-0l-turbo-kits-131751/
For what it's worth, I'm now running an Adventure Innovations Supercharger Kit and am much more pleased with the out of the box tune. The quality of components is better throughout. It's a really nice kit.

The turbo made more power down low. It started boosting at around 1,600 rpm from what I recall and was a blast to drive. Unfortunately 505 couldn't ever get it tuned right (lean / detonation), and their craftsmanship really wasn't all that great on the exhaust pipes (leaks) as well as the mounting bracket (cracked in several places in no time). 505 was onto a good idea, just poor execution. I grew tired of working with them a couple years back and went back to stock for a while before going with the AI kit.

If you're looking for a kit, call Adventure Innovations. Their kit runs great out of the box. More importantly it's a safe tune with no signs of detonation.

If I were to do it again, I'd go V8 or stroker first. We'll be running a 6.0 V8 in our 97 TJ we're building. While my Jeep runs great now it's taken a ton of trial and error and there's a lot that could go wrong. There's something to be said about the simplicity of a N/A engine.
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Unread 09-09-2008, 09:24 PM   #36
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Screw everyone that says turbos will have lag. Only if you are stupid and size it wrong.

I come from a Turbo Dodge background(mid 80s early 90s turbo Chryslers) which have the 2.2/2.5 turbo motors, ranging from non intercooled(T1), to intercooled(T2), even DOHC Lotus/Maserati cylinder heads(T3), and VNT, or the variably nozzle turbine(T4). Yes Chrysler had it first as far as I know.

The down fall of these motors(other than the rare DOHC), is that they flow poorly. The 2.5s w/ the smaller Mitsubishi turbo(on non intercooled cars) spools stupid fast, runs a little out of "breath" but honestly, with no turbo it would be even slower.

On a Jeep I see that as an advantage. Take a smallish size turbo(not sure exactly, I would need to see some compressor maps and stuff) and make it work well from 1800-4000 rpms for a modest 6-8psi w/ alcohol or water injection(works better than intercooling, and no intercooler to get heatsoaked while crawling through rocks or get gunked up by mud). Would it give you crazy freaking HP numbers? Compared to a stock 4.0, yeah. The TORQUE is where it's at. I'd guess 360ft-lbs of torque wouldn't be too hard to do.

I would keep compression where it's at and be happy with low boost so it still works with good response when not spooled and also to not weaken the "engine braking" abilities.

One really cool thing about turbos is how they spool up harder/faster when they are under a higher load. That means if you're bogged down in something and need more wheelspeed, give it hell and the turbo will spool and go apes*** and hopefully get you through.

The only really bad thing I heard in this thread that hadn't crossed my mind was dunking it in water. Definitely something to avoid.

Something I haven't found yet is how to tune it. I would want some kind of software to tune on-board w/ a laptop and wideband sensor/reader to see what's going on w/ A/F ratio and the like. Or there's the old school ways of adding a 7th fuel injector and have a diode wired in so it starts squirting under boost or use a rising rate FPR to add 1 psi to the fuel rail for every 1 psi of boost. I'm not sure how the computer would respond to that, hopefully someone can help me out.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 12:43 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by flatlander757 View Post
Screw everyone that says turbos will have lag. Only if you are stupid and size it wrong.

I come from a Turbo Dodge background(mid 80s early 90s turbo Chryslers) which have the 2.2/2.5 turbo motors, ranging from non intercooled(T1), to intercooled(T2), even DOHC Lotus/Maserati cylinder heads(T3), and VNT, or the variably nozzle turbine(T4). Yes Chrysler had it first as far as I know.

The down fall of these motors(other than the rare DOHC), is that they flow poorly. The 2.5s w/ the smaller Mitsubishi turbo(on non intercooled cars) spools stupid fast, runs a little out of "breath" but honestly, with no turbo it would be even slower.

On a Jeep I see that as an advantage. Take a smallish size turbo(not sure exactly, I would need to see some compressor maps and stuff) and make it work well from 1800-4000 rpms for a modest 6-8psi w/ alcohol or water injection(works better than intercooling, and no intercooler to get heatsoaked while crawling through rocks or get gunked up by mud). Would it give you crazy freaking HP numbers? Compared to a stock 4.0, yeah. The TORQUE is where it's at. I'd guess 360ft-lbs of torque wouldn't be too hard to do.

I would keep compression where it's at and be happy with low boost so it still works with good response when not spooled and also to not weaken the "engine braking" abilities.

One really cool thing about turbos is how they spool up harder/faster when they are under a higher load. That means if you're bogged down in something and need more wheelspeed, give it hell and the turbo will spool and go apes*** and hopefully get you through.

The only really bad thing I heard in this thread that hadn't crossed my mind was dunking it in water. Definitely something to avoid.

Something I haven't found yet is how to tune it. I would want some kind of software to tune on-board w/ a laptop and wideband sensor/reader to see what's going on w/ A/F ratio and the like. Or there's the old school ways of adding a 7th fuel injector and have a diode wired in so it starts squirting under boost or use a rising rate FPR to add 1 psi to the fuel rail for every 1 psi of boost. I'm not sure how the computer would respond to that, hopefully someone can help me out.
#1 - No one really said it'd lag. The 4.0L is huge in comparison to most turbo motors. Damn sure big enough to spool a turbo at low-RPMs.

#2 - A turbo that runs out of breath on a 2.5L would do that much more quickly on a 4.0L due to the exhaust flow, etc. For example... I come from the import world of the turbo realm. 300ZX, 3000GT, etc. (We have 2 of the bastards on these cars.) Turbos that would normally add beautiful top end to a stock 3.0L 6G72, will begin to choke on a 3.5L 6G74 upgrade. Will it make the power? Sure. But eventually, they will just make heat instead of building power due to the flow restrictions. But, like you said... sized correctly, there's no reason why it wouldn't work. I'm guessing you'd be needing something in the TD05 range.

#3 - That alky/water injection system would be a pain in the *** to keep up with constantly and the kind of environment that would be friendly to the turbo, would not have any sort of mud reaching high enough to gunk up an intercooler. Keep the sprayer, but use an intercooler. Hell, with the power level we're talking about, a small side-mount would work just fine. Again, wishful thinking would probably be around +100HP to the wheels.

As far as tuning and the whole rising boost pressures, etc. You would probably need at least one hell of a piggy-back, but I'm guessing a stand-alone would be needed to tune it like you're talking about. The stock computer has *nothing* programmed into it for controlling the FP for boost, or anything to do with boost. Add into that, bigger injectors for the application, and you would probably run into some problems as RedRock experienced.

IMO, supercharger, stroker, or engine swap. The things these vehicles are put through are not turbo friendly. It can be done, by ALL means. It just isn't a very practical idea.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 01:00 AM   #38
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1) Go with a supercharger.... better torque and power at the lower end RPMs, which is where you want to be on the rocks. The boost is constant so there is no spooling required. If you went with a turbo, you will just get to the higher RPMs on the rocks if you went with a larger turbo... smaller turbo wont require too much spooling, but will run out of boost pretty quick. Turbos are good for street cars and boggers.

2) Supercharger will alow you to stay in your cams profile, that is low RPMs with sufficient ...or more.... torque then the higher RPMs.

3)If you went with a turbo and want to get the bang out of the turbo and let it run effeciently, expect a cam swap, bunch of ignitiion mumbo jumbo and a bunch of new piping along with oil lines. This would be the same with a supercharger (cam and igniton retarding), but more contained.. and yea, better.

4) Never heard of an off road turbo kit. Only for Duramax mall parking lot four wheelers.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 07:16 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrock4x4 View Post
The turbo made more power down low. It started boosting at around 1,600 rpm from what I recall and was a blast to drive. Unfortunately 505 couldn't ever get it tuned right (lean / detonation), and their craftsmanship really wasn't all that great on the exhaust pipes (leaks) as well as the mounting bracket (cracked in several places in no time). 505 was onto a good idea, just poor execution. I grew tired of working with them a couple years back and went back to stock for a while before going with the AI kit.
505's computer sucks. The Rubicon I rode in had a SplitSecond piggyback computer installed, a different one than 505 gives you with the kit. The one 505 includes in their kit only allows changing of timing maps via a laptop. The next model up allows changing of fuel AND timing maps via a laptop. The forced induction 4.0L really needs adjustments to fuel AND timing maps, and large injectors. IIRC, the guy did the math, and 505 includes injectors that are one size too small. 505 did their dyno testing in Ft Collins, CO, which is at ~5000+ft elevation, and I'm sure that somehow changes the fuel/timing maps needed vs sea level. In other words, you're Jeep probably would have run great at higher elevation if you were lean at sea level (lower air density = less fuel).

PS-Adventure Innovations kit looks nice
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Unread 09-10-2008, 10:58 AM   #40
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Remember, not everybody uses their Jeep for rockcrawling. The only places near me are mud and sand dunes, where you do need high end power.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 11:48 AM   #41
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Remember, not everybody uses their Jeep for rockcrawling. The only places near me are mud and sand dunes, where you do need high end power.
And where a turbo would die in short time.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 12:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by COBY View Post
the turbo is the same just smaller and the jeep 4.0 has 8.5 to 1 com. you cant get much lower then that! trucks don't run big boost that is a rice racer thing man.
Not bashing you for not knowing but you should look into it. As said before, diesel trucks run insane amounts of boost. Some modded Cummins are up at 60psi.

And, yeah, you are right that the Jeep has very low compression. Especially since the new Civic Si has 11:1.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 03:00 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by RudyxTJ View Post
And where a turbo would die in short time.
I don't mean just a turbo, people were talking about doing stroker/supercharger too. I don't like reading all these threads about low end power and people saying Jeeps will never see high RPM's. I was just reminding people that we dont all crawl.

I could sure use a few HP at high RPM's, low end torque is almost worthless to me.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 03:28 PM   #44
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Turbos are for Hondas

Superchargers are for men
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Unread 09-10-2008, 03:48 PM   #45
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Turbos are for Hondas

Superchargers are for men

Thats pretty ignorant.

Im guessing you would consider a Typhoon, Syclone, Grand National, 6 second race cars, Detroit Diesel, Cat, and Cummins boys motors as well?

As for the high boost for hondas - thats just as ignorant. Big boost makes big power- ever wonder what PSI a top fuel car runs at?
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