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Unread 04-07-2010, 04:52 AM   #76
05RubiLJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthetj03 View Post
You've done your homework for sure. Nice choice on the components you chose. Curious on what was your deciding factor on choosing the AEV springs over going OME?
I wanted the progressive rate springs. Never have run the OME but compared the the fixed rate springs of the stock Rubi, these are a dream

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Unread 04-07-2010, 05:02 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by mudb8 View Post
If you have the rear lowers out to 16 3/4"... don't extend them any further. when you goto a 33"-35" tire you'll find the reason for setting the lowers near stock length, Currie arms aren't designed to be run that long.

as for the front, set them @ 16" and 14 3/4 like I suggested, and you won't need to have the caster set. don't waste any time messing with an extra 1/4" of wheel base. It'll only cause you problems, For One, the diff will hit the JJ on the currie Track bar...

There's a reason for My madness, I fool with these things all the time.
I did want to get the pinion angle close to the output angle. I did a rough measure this morning (I didn't want to crawl under the rig in my work clothes) and it looks to be about 16 1/4-1/2. With the stock length at 15 7/8", maybe I only got the arms out another 3/4". Anyway, I think it is a little far (maybe 1/2 turn) and I may have my angles a little more close.

I left the front alone, I figured it looked good there.

What's the special secret I will learn with shorter arms and 33-35" tires on this setup?
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Unread 04-07-2010, 06:43 AM   #78
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Drive review update:

I ran it along the neighborhood streets before I lengthened the rear lower arms and I could feel a vibration in my lumbar that I didn't notice before. This would start around 35-40mph. After making the arms longer, that vibration went away. I got it out on the highway last night and had a couple of interesting developments. I used to have a shimmy in my steering wheel from 48-55 mph. The rig would not shake, just the steering wheel. That has been totally resolved! On the first highway run, I got up to 65mph ad started to notice a feeling like the jeep was light in the front. When I would hit little rough spots in the road and the body seemed to vibrate opposite of the lower suspension - a lateral movement rotating about a virtual point in the middle of the front springs. I hit one small rough spot and it through the front end into a frenzy! I took my foot off the pedal and the vibrations slowed down. I kept driving but realized I had developed a death grip on the wheel. I have since been up to 75 mph and while it still feels a little unstable, it is no where near as bad. I will keep an eye on this and see if it continues to go away. I have replaced the steering shimmy with some kind of pulsating vibration under my seat over 62mph. It is a vibe that varies in intensity like a sine wave. The cycle is about 2-3 sec from low vibe to high vibe to low vibe. Again, it is not a change in the frequency of the vibe, just the intensity of the vibe that I feel. Does this indicate that I might need new U-joints? I didn't notice any play in the joints when I was under there last night.

More spring feedback. The rear springs are quite quick in increasing spring rate. The fronts seem to have more travel before you get feedback from the springs. Brings out the fact there is some tightening I need to do on the back door hinges. The arms give a great deal of road feedback. Much more than the stock arms. This is probably due to the JJ vs rubber. I am used to this from poly and brozoil high performance suspension and shifter parts. Some people will definitely not like this type of ride. I also still have load E stock MTR tires and they will probably need to be deflated a bit to absorb some of this. The next tires I will be buying are load D. I have decided not to go with load C since I want more sidewall strength and better road wear in general.
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Unread 04-07-2010, 08:45 PM   #79
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Wow, very very clean LJ rubi, i know you've heard it 1000 times, but awesome set-up.

BTW when do the tires come into play?
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Unread 04-07-2010, 08:54 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05RubiLJ View Post
Drive review update:

I ran it along the neighborhood streets before I lengthened the rear lower arms and I could feel a vibration in my lumbar that I didn't notice before. This would start around 35-40mph. After making the arms longer, that vibration went away. I got it out on the highway last night and had a couple of interesting developments. I used to have a shimmy in my steering wheel from 48-55 mph. The rig would not shake, just the steering wheel. That has been totally resolved! On the first highway run, I got up to 65mph ad started to notice a feeling like the jeep was light in the front. When I would hit little rough spots in the road and the body seemed to vibrate opposite of the lower suspension - a lateral movement rotating about a virtual point in the middle of the front springs. I hit one small rough spot and it through the front end into a frenzy! I took my foot off the pedal and the vibrations slowed down. I kept driving but realized I had developed a death grip on the wheel. I have since been up to 75 mph and while it still feels a little unstable, it is no where near as bad. I will keep an eye on this and see if it continues to go away. I have replaced the steering shimmy with some kind of pulsating vibration under my seat over 62mph. It is a vibe that varies in intensity like a sine wave. The cycle is about 2-3 sec from low vibe to high vibe to low vibe. Again, it is not a change in the frequency of the vibe, just the intensity of the vibe that I feel. Does this indicate that I might need new U-joints? I didn't notice any play in the joints when I was under there last night.

More spring feedback. The rear springs are quite quick in increasing spring rate. The fronts seem to have more travel before you get feedback from the springs. Brings out the fact there is some tightening I need to do on the back door hinges. The arms give a great deal of road feedback. Much more than the stock arms. This is probably due to the JJ vs rubber. I am used to this from poly and brozoil high performance suspension and shifter parts. Some people will definitely not like this type of ride. I also still have load E stock MTR tires and they will probably need to be deflated a bit to absorb some of this. The next tires I will be buying are load D. I have decided not to go with load C since I want more sidewall strength and better road wear in general.
OK, I'll help you out with your issues--

The vibes--check front and rear pinion angles. You want the front pinion angle, since it's a double cardan shaft, to be a degree or two below the driveshaft angle. Measure at one of the two flat spots on either side of the diff for the pinion angle and just put the angle finder on the drive shaft for the shaft angle. For the rear, how many degrees are the u joints seeing--ie, what's the difference between the shaft angle and rear output/pinion angle? Try to get those two (rear output and pinion angle) identical.

The wobble--Check to make sure all of the control arm bolts are nice and tight. Then have someone turn the steering wheel (with the engine off) back and forth while you watch the ends of the front track bar and all other front end joints. Keep an eye on the axle end-- if it moves, that's a problem. I'd recommend replacing the factory bolt with a grade 12.9 M10 bolt. You can pick one up at a good hardware store. It will fit the bushing sleeve tighter and it's also much stronger than the stock bolt and can be tightened much tighter.
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Unread 04-08-2010, 05:53 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2doorxj View Post
Wow, very very clean LJ rubi, i know you've heard it 1000 times, but awesome set-up.

BTW when do the tires come into play?
Thanks As soon as I solve my driveline issues, I will be getting new 255/85-16s for the Moab wheels. Just didn't want to add more variables into the mix.
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Unread 04-08-2010, 06:04 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
OK, I'll help you out with your issues--

The vibes--check front and rear pinion angles. You want the front pinion angle, since it's a double cardan shaft, to be a degree or two below the driveshaft angle. Measure at one of the two flat spots on either side of the diff for the pinion angle and just put the angle finder on the drive shaft for the shaft angle. For the rear, how many degrees are the u joints seeing--ie, what's the difference between the shaft angle and rear output/pinion angle? Try to get those two (rear output and pinion angle) identical.

The wobble--Check to make sure all of the control arm bolts are nice and tight. Then have someone turn the steering wheel (with the engine off) back and forth while you watch the ends of the front track bar and all other front end joints. Keep an eye on the axle end-- if it moves, that's a problem. I'd recommend replacing the factory bolt with a grade 12.9 M10 bolt. You can pick one up at a good hardware store. It will fit the bushing sleeve tighter and it's also much stronger than the stock bolt and can be tightened much tighter.
Thanks for the continued feedback. It was cooler this morning (below 50*) and I also noticed a rhythmic clunking at low speeds. No sound just movement. I think it is a driveline problem. Anyway, I have not been able to check the angles yet (will have to do tonight when I get home) but I suspect the front pinion is too flat which would mean needing to extend the UCAs to correct this. I guess the other option I have heard is that if the angles are okay but just different than the stock setup, it could be just that the U joints are worn in comfortably for the stock geometry but that is wears differently for the new geometry.

I also read another thread that you were talking about the front track bar axle mount. My wobble seems to be getting less and less so maybe the suspension just needed to settle in. I will definitely keep and eye on this. I have about 3 months before I head out on a road trip to Arizona and would like to make sure that both of these are resolved.
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Unread 04-08-2010, 07:25 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05RubiLJ View Post
Thanks for the continued feedback. It was cooler this morning (below 50*) and I also noticed a rhythmic clunking at low speeds. No sound just movement. I think it is a driveline problem. Anyway, I have not been able to check the angles yet (will have to do tonight when I get home) but I suspect the front pinion is too flat which would mean needing to extend the UCAs to correct this. I guess the other option I have heard is that if the angles are okay but just different than the stock setup, it could be just that the U joints are worn in comfortably for the stock geometry but that is wears differently for the new geometry.

I also read another thread that you were talking about the front track bar axle mount. My wobble seems to be getting less and less so maybe the suspension just needed to settle in. I will definitely keep and eye on this. I have about 3 months before I head out on a road trip to Arizona and would like to make sure that both of these are resolved.
I hate to say it, but that's wishful thinking. U joints don't settle into a comfort zone and don't need time to adapt. I'd recommend pulling the front shaft out and driving on just the rear to confirm that your angles are OK back there and no vibes are being produced. Then, put the front shaft back in and get the pinion angle dialed in. Make sure to take a final reading on the caster as well. As for the wobble, I'm very confident that the stock bolt sucks. Replace it with a slightly larger, much stronger bolt and the wobbles should be gone. Make sure that when you're rotating the front housing, you loosen the jam nut on the track bar so the two parts can move freely. I use an M10 and I BELIEVE a 7/16" (about 11mm) bolt will fit but I would test that first.
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Unread 04-08-2010, 08:45 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05RubiLJ View Post
I did want to get the pinion angle close to the output angle. I did a rough measure this morning (I didn't want to crawl under the rig in my work clothes) and it looks to be about 16 1/4-1/2. With the stock length at 15 7/8", maybe I only got the arms out another 3/4". Anyway, I think it is a little far (maybe 1/2 turn) and I may have my angles a little more close.

I left the front alone, I figured it looked good there.

What's the special secret I will learn with shorter arms and 33-35" tires on this setup?
no special secret there... The tires will hit the rear of the fenderwell and will rub a hole in the evap canister through the inner dust shield.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 05RubiLJ View Post
Thanks for the continued feedback. It was cooler this morning (below 50*) and I also noticed a rhythmic clunking at low speeds. No sound just movement. I think it is a driveline problem. Anyway, I have not been able to check the angles yet (will have to do tonight when I get home) but I suspect the front pinion is too flat which would mean needing to extend the UCAs to correct this. I guess the other option I have heard is that if the angles are okay but just different than the stock setup, it could be just that the U joints are worn in comfortably for the stock geometry but that is wears differently for the new geometry.

I also read another thread that you were talking about the front track bar axle mount. My wobble seems to be getting less and less so maybe the suspension just needed to settle in. I will definitely keep and eye on this. I have about 3 months before I head out on a road trip to Arizona and would like to make sure that both of these are resolved.
the longer you make the upper control arms, the more wandering the jeep will do, I have set caster angles on 3" lifts/rokmen skids at 8*with no driveline vibes one of them is dtc503's, I also had to send CB3's front LJ shaft in to have it rebalanced because of a vibe I was chasing around and had messed with the front caster/drive line angles extensively, that has a Nth TT and 3" of lift and is running 7* caster with no vibes, the jeep only has 20,000 miles on it. I have another in the shop right now with a RE 3.5" on 35's which is set at 6*, yours should be around 5.5* and should not need to be messed with. I'd look for another problem like a loose joint, double check the JJ's also, they will clunk if they are loose.

BTW, the JJ's are rubber isolated inside.

the suspension will settle quite a bit over time.
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Unread 04-09-2010, 06:07 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudb8 View Post
no special secret there... The tires will hit the rear of the fenderwell and will rub a hole in the evap canister through the inner dust shield.
I will take a look at the placement of the 33's when they get put on. Thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mudb8 View Post
the longer you make the upper control arms, the more wandering the jeep will do, I have set caster angles on 3" lifts/rokmen skids at 8*with no driveline vibes one of them is dtc503's, I also had to send CB3's front LJ shaft in to have it rebalanced because of a vibe I was chasing around and had messed with the front caster/drive line angles extensively, that has a Nth TT and 3" of lift and is running 7* caster with no vibes, the jeep only has 20,000 miles on it. I have another in the shop right now with a RE 3.5" on 35's which is set at 6*, yours should be around 5.5* and should not need to be messed with. I'd look for another problem like a loose joint, double check the JJ's also, they will clunk if they are loose.

BTW, the JJ's are rubber isolated inside.

the suspension will settle quite a bit over time.
It's feeling like the more I drive it, the better it is running. As far as the JJ go, if it isn't the joint themselves, then it is the arms (or combination of both) that transfer the road feel. I have only been in Jeeps with stock arms so maybe it is merely that difference. This morning I felt less of the vibration but it still seems to be there. Maybe I am being paranoid. I have seen descriptions of really bad vibes but is it true that you can have vibes that could wear out components and not even know it? I am going to be making a run out to Arizona in a couple months and would like to do what I can to make sure my drivetrain is good for the trip.

The caster as you suggested is tracking very well. The overall ride is getting better and this morning I had to go over some raised bumps in the road that were only hitting one tire at a time at about 40 mph and the steering is solid. No bumpsteer at all.
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Unread 04-13-2010, 07:52 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
I hate to say it, but that's wishful thinking. U joints don't settle into a comfort zone and don't need time to adapt. I'd recommend pulling the front shaft out and driving on just the rear to confirm that your angles are OK back there and no vibes are being produced. Then, put the front shaft back in and get the pinion angle dialed in. Make sure to take a final reading on the caster as well. As for the wobble, I'm very confident that the stock bolt sucks. Replace it with a slightly larger, much stronger bolt and the wobbles should be gone. Make sure that when you're rotating the front housing, you loosen the jam nut on the track bar so the two parts can move freely. I use an M10 and I BELIEVE a 7/16" (about 11mm) bolt will fit but I would test that first.
I have not run without the front shaft yet but I will test when I have a chance. Vibes are still there a bit. I did put in a larger bolt, got it torqued down. I did notice that the track bar was a bit short at the ride height when I pulled the stock bolt out so I gave the track bar end a turn to line it up. I also greased the stock zerks while I was there and they did need some grease. The steering is much more precise with all the changes. The wobbles are much less but still there a little at 65-70mph. I'll have to look at the stock front end pieces now to rule those out. The new ones seem to be all set.
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Unread 04-16-2010, 08:47 AM   #87
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I'd like to see pics with the Cooper S/Ts installed!
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Unread 04-16-2010, 03:01 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by dirt_j00 View Post
I'd like to see pics with the Cooper S/Ts installed!
Here ya go:

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Unread 04-16-2010, 03:08 PM   #89
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Can you give us a head-on shot (or near about) to give us tire width? I'm liking them so far!!
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Unread 04-16-2010, 05:39 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by dirt_j00 View Post
Can you give us a head-on shot (or near about) to give us tire width? I'm liking them so far!!
The front:

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