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Unread 12-27-2008, 07:20 PM   #16
rubidriver
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Originally Posted by A-P View Post
I have thrown headers on all of my cars so far with the exception of my TJ because I just got it. I have NEVER had headers crack. Race modified 5.0, 03 Cobra, even my 66 Mustang that I have had for 7 years. The only way I can see headers cracking is if you repeatedly go swimming with your Jeep
None of those are I6 engines made by Mopar. Gale banks even one said it is impossible of making a header that wont crack, the better you make it(and theres only a point to which you can make it better), the more time you are buying.

A V8 engine has 4 cylinders per side, which has a lot easier time dealing with all the factors that crack the headers and manifolds of the I6.

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your money will go farther in College Station.
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Unread 12-27-2008, 08:39 PM   #17
fish4life
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Originally Posted by rubidriver View Post
None of those are I6 engines made by Mopar. Gale banks even one said it is impossible of making a header that wont crack, the better you make it(and theres only a point to which you can make it better), the more time you are buying.

A V8 engine has 4 cylinders per side, which has a lot easier time dealing with all the factors that crack the headers and manifolds of the I6.
i'm pretty sure it is possible. Use a two piece header, running only 3 cylinders per piece. Run each down to the cat, and connect them just before they reach the cat, with a big semi-truck style flex joint

Each piece handles less cylinders, making it shorter, yet giving it a long enough downpipe for all the torque movement it needs.

I'm pretty sure if you did that it would not crack.
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Unread 12-27-2008, 09:05 PM   #18
Greg_Volkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-P View Post
I have thrown headers on all of my cars so far with the exception of my TJ because I just got it. I have NEVER had headers crack. Race modified 5.0, 03 Cobra, even my 66 Mustang that I have had for 7 years. The only way I can see headers cracking is if you repeatedly go swimming with your Jeep
get back with us in 2 years.


I am on my third header. the I-6 has a very long block that expands and contracts and causes cracks in headers. the newer headers don't have a flange that goes between all 6 cylinders; it combines the first three, then another flange combines the rear three. seems to work a bit better.
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Unread 12-28-2008, 12:33 AM   #19
rubidriver
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Originally Posted by fish4life View Post
i'm pretty sure it is possible. Use a two piece header, running only 3 cylinders per piece. Run each down to the cat, and connect them just before they reach the cat, with a big semi-truck style flex joint

Each piece handles less cylinders, making it shorter, yet giving it a long enough downpipe for all the torque movement it needs.

I'm pretty sure if you did that it would not crack.
There you have it. You are now a millionaire. Dont you think if that was the answer to it, it would have already been done. The 00+ have a better style of it yes, with 3 cylinders per piece, but the head is so long and its not like having a V engine. There are so many things that cause the headers and manifolds to crack that are before the header or manifold not after. The main thing is the head being long and the warping, expansion, and contraction of it. Not so much the Y/downpipe.
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your money will go farther in College Station.
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Unread 12-28-2008, 12:53 AM   #20
fish4life
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Originally Posted by rubidriver View Post
There you have it. You are now a millionaire. Dont you think if that was the answer to it, it would have already been done. The 00+ have a better style of it yes, with 3 cylinders per piece, but the head is so long and its not like having a V engine. There are so many things that cause the headers and manifolds to crack that are before the header or manifold not after. The main thing is the head being long and the warping, expansion, and contraction of it. Not so much the Y/downpipe.
by your logic all V-12 engines should exhibit the same problem then.

IMO, you are right to certain degree. However, i think the bigger problem is the fact that you have one long manifold supported very far from the block itself. IIRC the front exhaust mount is just above the cat ... that's a long way from the Y/downpipe, let alone from the exhaust ports.

disconnect the manifold and you'll see there's at least 1.5" of movement in the exhaust (right at the connection) which just sort of moves on the two rubber mounts that hold it up. That's a lot of movement held in place just at the donut where it mates to the header

IMO, the engine does exhibit warping/contracting when heated/cooled, i agree. But there are plenty of cases where an engine has overheated, blown a head gasket and the exhaust header didn't necessarily crack. Surely, the engine in question exhibited MUCH more expanding/warping/contracting then a normally operating engine that happened to crack an exhaust header.

Basically what i'm trying to say is that it's NOT just a problem with the head.
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Unread 12-28-2008, 11:33 AM   #21
rubidriver
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Originally Posted by fish4life View Post
by your logic all V-12 engines should exhibit the same problem then.

IMO, you are right to certain degree. However, i think the bigger problem is the fact that you have one long manifold supported very far from the block itself. IIRC the front exhaust mount is just above the cat ... that's a long way from the Y/downpipe, let alone from the exhaust ports.

disconnect the manifold and you'll see there's at least 1.5" of movement in the exhaust (right at the connection) which just sort of moves on the two rubber mounts that hold it up. That's a lot of movement held in place just at the donut where it mates to the header

IMO, the engine does exhibit warping/contracting when heated/cooled, i agree. But there are plenty of cases where an engine has overheated, blown a head gasket and the exhaust header didn't necessarily crack. Surely, the engine in question exhibited MUCH more expanding/warping/contracting then a normally operating engine that happened to crack an exhaust header.

Basically what i'm trying to say is that it's NOT just a problem with the head.
I see what you are trying to say, but you cant compare that to a v12. The money that it cost to buy a car with a v12 would buy nemerous TJ's. Those cars are so presision tuned, mostly foreign made, and made by engineers that Jeep wish they had. You have to remember cars with v12's didnt cost 30k like the Jeep Im driving cost, and there is a reason for that, there was a lot going into that car and Im sure part of that was exhaust building.

Besides, I dont know anyone on here that has any experience with cars that have v12's, who knows maybe they crack just as much as the TJ manifolds.
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your money will go farther in College Station.
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Unread 12-28-2008, 12:31 PM   #22
Greg_Volkman
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Originally Posted by rubidriver View Post
I see what you are trying to say, but you cant compare that to a v12. The money that it cost to buy a car with a v12 would buy nemerous TJ's. Those cars are so presision tuned, mostly foreign made, and made by engineers that Jeep wish they had. You have to remember cars with v12's didnt cost 30k like the Jeep Im driving cost, and there is a reason for that, there was a lot going into that car and Im sure part of that was exhaust building.

Besides, I dont know anyone on here that has any experience with cars that have v12's, who knows maybe they crack just as much as the TJ manifolds.
v-12's tend to be aluminum blocks too.
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Unread 12-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #23
rubidriver
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Originally Posted by Greg_Volkman View Post
v-12's tend to be aluminum blocks too.
I was going to include that but I forgot to, aluminum heads also.
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your money will go farther in College Station.
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