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Unread 08-25-2010, 05:36 PM   #1
basssolow5
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is this a good alternative to trussing?

IRON ROCK OFF ROAD: Dana 30 Inner Axle Sleeve Kit
i havent heard anything about this

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Unread 08-25-2010, 05:44 PM   #2
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i welded some Schedule 40 pipe over the outside as an outter sleeve.



http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/un...ml#post9547610
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Unread 08-25-2010, 07:18 PM   #3
J03_TJ
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^^ what he did adds way more strength than adding inner tubes for sure. Adding inner tubes would increase the strength, but not nearly as much as the outer.
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Unread 08-25-2010, 07:26 PM   #4
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Not sure how much it actually does but I have this: Rustys Offroad: Dana Model 30 Axle Tube Brace

I'd say its pretty good for $20. Anyone know how much it actually does?
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Unread 08-25-2010, 08:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -ExDementia- View Post
I'd say its pretty good for $20. Anyone know how much it actually does?
you can make that out of 1/4" scrap for nothing. and no it won't do much at all...it only adds one direction/axis of stability. and its going to hit your oil pan at full compression unless you have a really tall lift and major bumpstop extension.
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Unread 08-25-2010, 08:37 PM   #6
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It does alot of good, for Rusty's advertising budget.
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Unread 08-25-2010, 11:34 PM   #7
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you can make that out of 1/4" scrap for nothing. and no it won't do much at all...it only adds one direction/axis of stability. and its going to hit your oil pan at full compression unless you have a really tall lift and major bumpstop extension.
Thats a negative there my man. Yet you say that so confidently...

Anyway I guess this is better than having nothing there at all.
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Unread 08-25-2010, 11:45 PM   #8
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Every time I have seen a truss used it is for adding CA mounts in different places not for strength.

for strength an outer sleeve is the way to go. you can't get nearly the strength with a narrow tube. the wider circumference is what gives the tube a lot of its strength. not to mention you can add a lot more thickness to the outside than the inside

unless you are desert racing, then a LOWER truss will prevent the axle from snapping when going off ledges and jumps. most desert racers are not concerned with ground clearance that close to the axle. an upper truss will do that but not as well as a lower.

the best trusses for the money I have seen are a piece of 2"x4" square tube with one of the 2" sides cut off and then cut to run from the passenger LCA to the Diff. for added strength you can cut holes in it and weld DOM gussets.

its not going to hit the oil pan at full stuff because it is only as tall as the diff. plus with a TJ you can do a MML and a BL to get even more clearance.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 07:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by -ExDementia- View Post
Thats a negative there my man. Yet you say that so confidently...
yea...the TnT truss I've seen on roughly 2.5" lift, with something like 2" bumpstop extensions, put a good 1" dent in the oil pan - with a 1" MML.

if you take a TJ or XJ, pull the springs & shocks out and compress the axle all the way with no jounce bumpers or bumpstop extensions, you might be surprised how little oil pan clearance there is for an over the top truss. i mocked up a nice 1/4" plate truss on top of my installed LP D30 before welding to the HP D30...took some measurements and scrapped that over the top truss idea.

hence I went sleeve - so I could maximize uptravel on a low lift and avoid clearance issues.

Last edited by Unlimited04; 08-26-2010 at 08:33 AM..
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Unread 08-26-2010, 08:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
yea...the TnT truss I've seen on roughly 2.5" lift, with something like 2" bumpstop extensions, put a good 1" dent in the oil pan - with a 1" MML.

if you take a TJ or XJ, pull the springs & shocks out and compress the axle all the way with no jounce bumpers or bumpstop extensions, you might be surprised how little oil pan clearance there is for an over the top truss. i mocked up a nice 1/4" plate truss on top of my installed LP D30 before welding to the HP D30...took some measurements and scrapped that over the top truss idea.

hence I went sleeve - so I could maximize uptravel on a low lift and avoid clearance issues.
Well the rusty's axle brace sits lower than the pumpkin and I've gone out and checked at full flex how much room is left and I have plenty of room. Bump stops let my tires rub but not too bad. Pretty much the max I can flex anyway.

The TnT truss goes over the pumpkin and raises the control arm mount. and sticks up way higher than mine.

Edit: I do have nearly twice the amount of lift you mentioned in your example. I'm sure if I was around 2.5 inches I would be singing a different tune.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 08:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -ExDementia- View Post
Well the rusty's axle brace sits lower than the pumpkin and I've gone out and checked at full flex how much room is left and I have plenty of room. Bump stops let my tires rub but not too bad. Pretty much the max I can flex anyway.

The TnT truss goes over the pumpkin and raises the control arm mount. and sticks up way higher than mine.
TnT is below the pumpkin in the center - where the oil pan clear issue occurs. and just because something is below the pumpkin, doesn't mean its going to clear. the pumpkin and UCA will compress nicely beside the oil pan, thats why they're offset. ever see what happens with a YJ that doesn't have proper front bumpstops? hint: the stock axle tube hits the oil pan.


from: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/w...2/#post6657324

remember when I said this earlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
its going to hit your oil pan at full compression unless you have a really tall lift and major bumpstop extension.
You've proven my point. You're running 4.5" of lift on an XJ, no doubt with a long shock length and extended bumpstops (If you haven't extended the bumpstops to match compressed shock length, then your bottoming out the shocks and don't have bumpstops set properly - which damages the shocks).

Now on a TJ or XJ, like I said earlier - remove the springs, shocks and jounce bumpers. set the jeep down on the axle and bumpstop cups. measure the clearances. there isn't much room to play with. Maybe 2"? who knows - it depends on your rig and how you want to set it up. Not that an over-the-top truss is a bad idea - you just need to think of these things before welding something to your axle and finding out you punched a hole in an oil pan the first time you hit a whoop. because what it looks under one side full flex or ride height isn't the complete story.

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Originally Posted by -ExDementia- View Post
Edit: I do have nearly twice the amount of lift you mentioned in your example. I'm sure if I was around 2.5 inches I would be singing a different tune.
my point exactly...it depends how you set things up. you just need to think about these before bad stuff happens
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Unread 08-26-2010, 09:00 AM   #12
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Ya'll can do what you like as far as trussing goes. Just make sure you go from the pumpkin to the inner C or keep a close eye on it.

If you search Joe Dillard's posts in the YJ section, he discovered the hard way that if you only give it one place to flex and then shorten that place up by making the rest of the tube rigid, it will break where it flexes.

It's better to spread that flex out over the length of the whole tube, or remove the flex completely.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 09:12 AM   #13
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blaine, you're always saying don't put effort into trussing a D30...I would also think the weakest link is where its going to break.



remember this HP D30 from Pirate4x4? guy jumped the Jeep in a whoop, came down on it and kaboom.

it looks like it broke right where most would assume to be the strongest place - in the center of a over-the-top truss welded to the pumpkin. what do you make of it?
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Unread 08-26-2010, 09:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
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blaine, you're always saying don't put effort into trussing a D30...I would also think the weakest link is where its going to break.



remember this HP D30 from Pirate4x4? guy jumped the Jeep in a whoop, came down on it and kaboom.

it looks like it broke right where most would assume to be the strongest place - in the center of a over-the-top truss welded to the pumpkin. what do you make of it?
Don't know the thread, the rig, or the circumstances, nor do I care to.

However, if you're going to paraphrase my sentiments, get them correct.

I don't see the value in trussing a cheap housing that still has too many weak links that can't be addressed.

The inner C's are not very robust.
The balljoints are not very robust.
The rig they are in is not very robust when used as a Desert Race car.

Basically if you're not jumping the rig and slamming through the whoops, it doesn't matter. If you are jumping the rig and slamming it through the whoops, you have far more issues to worry about than your front axle.

It's the same with all these bulletproof front diff covers. To me they are nothing but ridiculous. If you hit your front axle on the diff hard enough that you need the cover to be that strong, you will kill the axle elsewhere or tear up control arms.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Basically if you're not jumping the rig and slamming through the whoops, it doesn't matter. If you are jumping the rig and slamming it through the whoops, you have far more issues to worry about than your front axle.

It's the same with all these bulletproof front diff covers. To me they are nothing but ridiculous. If you hit your front axle on the diff hard enough that you need the cover to be that strong, you will kill the axle elsewhere or tear up control arms.
Agree.

I have only seen trussing that makes sense for Desert racers. unless you are trying to relocate CA mounts.

if you are worried about over flexing the tube, sleeve it. but having a small amount of flex will prevent breakage in most circumstances.

about the diff covers- agree, I would like to have a skid for the bottom few bolts, but I always felt that if you were gonna hit it hard enough to punch a hole in the cover you were gonna bust the R&P or spiders anyways

in other words what Blaine said.
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