Final Lift Question!!

zzquik · 08-02-2003, 09:57 PM

alright, i think im going with the RE 3.5" super-flex and possibly a 1 or 2 inch body lift..i will be able to fit 33's, thats all im concerned with..now my question is, what else do i need to buy after i get the susp kit..(such as other parts, etc) and give me a good idea of what i will be paying for each part if any..i know a SYE and CV driveshaft is strongly recommended to eliminate driveline vibes but some people have said it is ok if you dont have one..also, i could get a MM lift, doesnt that reduce driveline vibes?..i will get the SYE and driveshaft later on when i can get the money, hehe

**Markus** · 08-02-2003, 10:06 PM

Suggestions:
RE 3.5" SF is a very complete kit, but you should swap their quick disconnects out for Tera discos. You'll also need an adjustable front track bar.

If you decide to do a body lift, stick to 1" only. 2" is both unsafe (the frome could separate from the body in a collision as the stresses placed on 2" body mount bolts can be heavy enough to sheer them off). Also, 2"+ body lifts look silly. And you don't want to look silly

If you run a BL, you can look into a motor mount lift of 1" like the MORE rubber torsion MML. I have one and really like it. The nice thing is that you won't have to relocate the fan shroud as you will with just the BL. And more importantly, the pinion angles are somewhat corrected when the MM is installed so you won't need near as much of a t-case drop to correct for driveline vibes if you don't immediately go with a SYE/CV shaft conversion. My jeep only required a 3/8" drop after installing my Tera 3T, 1" BL amd 1" MML. I don't yet have a driveshaft SYE conversion, so the MML was a nice compromise. And I'll run it even after doing the shaft conversion.

HTH
Markus.

Edit: 3.5" SF doesn't come w/ QDs so you're free to buy whose ever you want. I vote Tera

Owen · 08-02-2003, 10:06 PM

the RE 3.5 will be enough to run 33"s.... I would stay away from 2" BL... a 1" BL looks fine and does the trick. The MML will help the vibes a very little bit. This IMO is another internet myth. If you think about it the back of the transfer case is on the crossmember skid which is fixed. Lifting the motor up 1" will only change the rear angle very slightly. Without and SYE this angle is far too great. You will also need to drop the transfer case at least and 1" to eliminate all vibes.

Edit: All jeeps are different so it may be less than !" drop ont eh transfer case. With teh 3.5" lift you will be over 4" before it settles in so you may have to ticker with this again down the road. When I had mine I changed it a bunch of times. After the MML I still required my 1" spacers to eliminate all vibes. Vibes on the rear drivetrain are very bad even if very slight. Something to keep in mind

zzquik · 08-02-2003, 10:10 PM

do i need to buy new ring and pinion gears to compensate for the tires?(sry, im a noob) and what is the price of these gears?

**Markus** · 08-02-2003, 10:13 PM

Gotta disagree Owen... at least with my set up the MMl helped a great deal. I ran a 2" BB for a year and needed a 3/8" t-case drop. Now I run a 3.5" suspension lift and 1" body w/ 1" MML and still only need a 3/8" drop. I can only attribute that to the MML. And I have the D44 rear which is more prone to driveline vibes b/c of the shorter rear driveshaft. I do recommend a MMl if an SYE/CV conversion isn't doable. If only for a 3/4" less drop. But then, every Jeep is different, so maybe I got lucky.

**Markus** · 08-02-2003, 10:17 PM

What gears do you currently have? If 3.73s, you'll be OK but will definitely experience a drop in power with 33s.

4.11s are a perfect fit with 33s, but if you're going to spend the $ (and new gears are expensive) go with 4.56s cause you'll probably end up lifting again down the road to accomodate 35" tires. Can't tell you what the $ would be for new gears anbd installation.. I live in Canada where everything is screwy including prices

cdnjeepin · 08-02-2003, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus

Edit: 3.5" SF doesn't come w/ QDs so you're free to buy whose ever you want. I vote Tera

Just to correct you Mark. The RE 3.5" std, 3.5"SF and 4.5" SF all come with Disco's..

Owen · 08-02-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus
Gotta disagree Owen... at least with my set up the MMl helped a great deal. I ran a 2" BB for a year and needed a 3/8" t-case drop. Now I run a 3.5" suspension lift and 1" body w/ 1" MML and still only need a 3/8" drop. I can only attribute that to the MML. And I have the D44 rear which is more prone to driveline vibes b/c of the shorter rear driveshaft. I do recommend a MMl if an SYE/CV conversion isn't doable. If only for a 3/4" less drop. But then, every Jeep is different, so maybe I got lucky.

I am willing to bet you have vibes and don't even know it. I played and fighted with mine a lot before my SYE. Stu Olsen states clearly on his site as well that he thinks its mostly hype. The MML give you very little angle difference by teh time you are at the output shaft on the Np231.

**Markus** · 08-02-2003, 10:20 PM

D'oh. I was looking at the std kit on their website. My bad...GO TERA discos!

cdnjeepin · 08-02-2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by owen1832

I am willing to bet you have vibes and don't even know it. I played and fighted with mine a lot before my SYE. Stu Olsen states clearly on his site as well that he thinks its mostly hype. The MML give you very little angle difference by teh time you are at the output shaft on the Np231.

I have driven in Marks Jeep and felt no vibes or shakes at all. I know every Jeep is different and some like things better than others..But a MML does help the rear driveline.. How much is negotiable and any help is better than none.

I never bothered playing around with MML's and drop T-cases..I put the SYE and CV shaft in when I did my lift.

**Markus** · 08-02-2003, 10:28 PM

Owen, I'll cede you that... how can I argue about not having driveline vibes I can't feel

A t-case drop is always a half-assed way of dealing with driveline vibes and, given a world where $ wasn't an issue, I'd have done my rear driveshaft at the same time as I did my lift. However, as a temporary fix - a stepping stone if you will - the MML is a good way of dealing with vibes IMO. And if you combine a MML with adjustable upper CAs in the rear, you have an even better chance of dialing out vibes. It's (relatively) simple geometry - with some basic economics thrown in there as well.

bluewrangler · 08-03-2003, 12:37 AM

They do a specific job they are all the same right? I dont have any on my 3t lift anything is better than nothing. Do the transfer drop thats why the parts are included.

**Markus** · 08-03-2003, 01:04 AM

Discoes are not 'all the same'. RE came up with an adjustable system where dfferent sized lifts could be accomodated with the same QD ends by adding different length shafts. This system has proven both weak and loud while driving. Teras are not adjustable (sizes are from 0-2" lift and 2.5"-4" lift) but their fit is better than are RE's, and they are stronger as well. Mostly, they're easier to use.

As far as the t-case drop goes, the thread began with a question of both a 3.5" lift combined with a BL and possibly a MML. If zzquik was installing a BL anyway, a good compliment to it is a MML (fan shroud and pinion angle as noted earlier). That's what we were answering/disputing here - the usefulness and effectiveness of motor lifts. If there is a way to lessen the amount of drop required (and resulting loss of ground clearance) why not take it? I've found an effective way of doing that (gaining 3/8" clearance) w/o doing the rear driveshaft has been a MML.

08-02-2003, 10:06 PM	#2
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	Suggestions: RE 3.5" SF is a very complete kit, but you should swap their quick disconnects out for Tera discos. You'll also need an adjustable front track bar. If you decide to do a body lift, stick to 1" only. 2" is both unsafe (the frome could separate from the body in a collision as the stresses placed on 2" body mount bolts can be heavy enough to sheer them off). Also, 2"+ body lifts look silly. And you don't want to look silly If you run a BL, you can look into a motor mount lift of 1" like the MORE rubber torsion MML. I have one and really like it. The nice thing is that you won't have to relocate the fan shroud as you will with just the BL. And more importantly, the pinion angles are somewhat corrected when the MM is installed so you won't need near as much of a t-case drop to correct for driveline vibes if you don't immediately go with a SYE/CV shaft conversion. My jeep only required a 3/8" drop after installing my Tera 3T, 1" BL amd 1" MML. I don't yet have a driveshaft SYE conversion, so the MML was a nice compromise. And I'll run it even after doing the shaft conversion. HTH Markus. Edit: 3.5" SF doesn't come w/ QDs so you're free to buy whose ever you want. I vote Tera __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL] Last edited by Markus; 08-02-2003 at 10:09 PM..

08-02-2003, 10:06 PM	#3
Owen Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,829 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	the RE 3.5 will be enough to run 33"s.... I would stay away from 2" BL... a 1" BL looks fine and does the trick. The MML will help the vibes a very little bit. This IMO is another internet myth. If you think about it the back of the transfer case is on the crossmember skid which is fixed. Lifting the motor up 1" will only change the rear angle very slightly. Without and SYE this angle is far too great. You will also need to drop the transfer case at least and 1" to eliminate all vibes. Edit: All jeeps are different so it may be less than !" drop ont eh transfer case. With teh 3.5" lift you will be over 4" before it settles in so you may have to ticker with this again down the road. When I had mine I changed it a bunch of times. After the MML I still required my 1" spacers to eliminate all vibes. Vibes on the rear drivetrain are very bad even if very slight. Something to keep in mind __________________ Smuggler Re-Born..... Last edited by Owen; 08-02-2003 at 10:08 PM..

08-02-2003, 10:13 PM	#5
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	Gotta disagree Owen... at least with my set up the MMl helped a great deal. I ran a 2" BB for a year and needed a 3/8" t-case drop. Now I run a 3.5" suspension lift and 1" body w/ 1" MML and still only need a 3/8" drop. I can only attribute that to the MML. And I have the D44 rear which is more prone to driveline vibes b/c of the shorter rear driveshaft. I do recommend a MMl if an SYE/CV conversion isn't doable. If only for a 3/4" less drop. But then, every Jeep is different, so maybe I got lucky. __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL]

08-02-2003, 10:17 PM	#6
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	What gears do you currently have? If 3.73s, you'll be OK but will definitely experience a drop in power with 33s. 4.11s are a perfect fit with 33s, but if you're going to spend the $ (and new gears are expensive) go with 4.56s cause you'll probably end up lifting again down the road to accomodate 35" tires. Can't tell you what the $ would be for new gears anbd installation.. I live in Canada where everything is screwy including prices __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL]

08-02-2003, 10:20 PM	#9
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	D'oh. I was looking at the std kit on their website. My bad...GO TERA discos! __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL]

08-02-2003, 10:10 PM	#4
zzquik Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 109 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	do i need to buy new ring and pinion gears to compensate for the tires?(sry, im a noob) and what is the price of these gears?

08-02-2003, 10:28 PM	#11
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	Owen, I'll cede you that... how can I argue about not having driveline vibes I can't feel A t-case drop is always a half-assed way of dealing with driveline vibes and, given a world where $ wasn't an issue, I'd have done my rear driveshaft at the same time as I did my lift. However, as a temporary fix - a stepping stone if you will - the MML is a good way of dealing with vibes IMO. And if you combine a MML with adjustable upper CAs in the rear, you have an even better chance of dialing out vibes. It's (relatively) simple geometry - with some basic economics thrown in there as well. __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL]

08-03-2003, 12:37 AM	#12
bluewrangler Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 92 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	why swap out the discos? They do a specific job they are all the same right? I dont have any on my 3t lift anything is better than nothing. Do the transfer drop thats why the parts are included.

08-03-2003, 01:04 AM	#13
Markus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 723 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	Discoes are not 'all the same'. RE came up with an adjustable system where dfferent sized lifts could be accomodated with the same QD ends by adding different length shafts. This system has proven both weak and loud while driving. Teras are not adjustable (sizes are from 0-2" lift and 2.5"-4" lift) but their fit is better than are RE's, and they are stronger as well. Mostly, they're easier to use. As far as the t-case drop goes, the thread began with a question of both a 3.5" lift combined with a BL and possibly a MML. If zzquik was installing a BL anyway, a good compliment to it is a MML (fan shroud and pinion angle as noted earlier). That's what we were answering/disputing here - the usefulness and effectiveness of motor lifts. If there is a way to lessen the amount of drop required (and resulting loss of ground clearance) why not take it? I've found an effective way of doing that (gaining 3/8" clearance) w/o doing the rear driveshaft has been a MML. __________________ [URL=http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/370762]HEAVILY ARMOURED 2002 SAHARA[/URL] [URL=www.truro-offroad.com]TRURO OFFROAD[/URL]