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Unread 03-01-2007, 07:43 AM   #1
Spectre66
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F8.8 Buildup for TJ

For those of you who have done an 8.8 axle conversion for a TJ, how nessicary is it to weld the axle tubes to the pumpkin? I know this is done to keep the tubes from spinning but how likily is this to happen.

Only reason I'm asking is I'm having a hard time finding someone with the know how to weld steel to cast iron. If anyone knows someone in the Houston, TX area I'd take that information too...

Thanks guys...

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Unread 03-01-2007, 08:02 AM   #2
Wheelin98TJ
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I did not weld mine.

Its been fine for over 3 years now.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 08:10 AM   #3
barry1me
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my jeep had the 8.8 in it when I bought it, but its not welded.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 08:48 AM   #4
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre66
For those of you who have done an 8.8 axle conversion for a TJ, how nessicary is it to weld the axle tubes to the pumpkin? I know this is done to keep the tubes from spinning but how likily is this to happen.

Only reason I'm asking is I'm having a hard time finding someone with the know how to weld steel to cast iron. If anyone knows someone in the Houston, TX area I'd take that information too...

Thanks guys...
Have any welder that knows how to mig weld do it and use the same settings on his welder that he would for welding 1/4" mild steel. Be sure to clean it really with a wire brush and wipe it down with a good solvent to get the oil off.

As far as it being necessary, it is a known problem, there is no way to know if it will or won't happen to you, so why risk it? It's much easier to prevent it than it is to repair after it spins the tubes, takes out your driveshaft and then you have to deal with the damage a spinning driveshaft causes.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 08:59 AM   #5
notmyj
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We weld every single one we do. Like Mrblaine stated above, its easier to prevent it, than it is to repair it.

The welding method used is always up for debate. We don't mig the tubes. We preheat the center section, then TIG it with Nickle rod. There are a few schools of thought, but from what we have learned, this method makes the best sence to us.

As far whether or not it is neccassary... Is it neccassary to buckle your seat belt to drive your jeep? It will still start and drive, but again, if didnt wear it and were in anaccident, it will be hell to recover, as oppossed to just putting it on in the first place. Same logic applies here.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 09:12 AM   #6
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmyj
We weld every single one we do. Like Mrblaine stated above, its easier to prevent it, than it is to repair it.

The welding method used is always up for debate. We don't mig the tubes. We preheat the center section, then TIG it with Nickle rod. There are a few schools of thought, but from what we have learned, this method makes the best sence to us.

As far whether or not it is neccassary... Is it neccassary to buckle your seat belt to drive your jeep? It will still start and drive, but again, if didnt wear it and were in anaccident, it will be hell to recover, as oppossed to just putting it on in the first place. Same logic applies here.
Nailer341 on here runs an 8.8 that he shaved the bottom on. The mild steel plate on the bottom was welded on with a mig using the process I described and has never leaked or done anything to indicate that using a mig to weld it was a bad idea.

Try doing one for a rig you know that you can keep an eye on. It's certainly much faster to weld it with the mig.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 09:23 AM   #7
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine
Nailer341 on here runs an 8.8 that he shaved the bottom on. The mild steel plate on the bottom was welded on with a mig using the process I described and has never leaked or done anything to indicate that using a mig to weld it was a bad idea.

Try doing one for a rig you know that you can keep an eye on. It's certainly much faster to weld it with the mig.
And to be sure so Notmyj won't have the impression mrblaine recommended mig welding because he's only familiar with mig, he's also proficient at tig and stick welding. I've witnessed his tig and mig welding and at least to me and my rudimentary welding abilities, his welding skills are impressive to say the least.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 09:39 AM   #8
Spectre66
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I've got a few friends that TIG weld but none of them feel brave enough to attempt the welds... This is also the first time I've heard of using a MIG, Mrblaine, how many axles have you done with a MIG? Given that Cast iron isn't something that is usually MIG'd what do you have to look out for?

I'm actually fairly experianced with MIG and if it can be done I think I could do it, but I have to say I'm a bit skeptical... Do you run a bead around the whole seam or do you just run a couple beads to keep it from spinning?
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Unread 03-01-2007, 09:44 AM   #9
Jerry Bransford
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As strictly a so-so barely beyond beginner mig welder who has not welded cast iron, don't you just have to preheat cast iron to get a good mig weld?
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Unread 03-01-2007, 09:46 AM   #10
Spectre66
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I've heard of preheating the cast iron but it was in regards to TIG... How would one go about preheating? are we just talking about taking a torch to it go get the temp up a bit?
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Unread 03-01-2007, 10:09 AM   #11
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre66
I've got a few friends that TIG weld but none of them feel brave enough to attempt the welds... This is also the first time I've heard of using a MIG, Mrblaine, how many axles have you done with a MIG? Given that Cast iron isn't something that is usually MIG'd what do you have to look out for?

I'm actually fairly experianced with MIG and if it can be done I think I could do it, but I have to say I'm a bit skeptical... Do you run a bead around the whole seam or do you just run a couple beads to keep it from spinning?
I've only done a few axles. What I have done though is lots of welding to knuckles and stuff like that as well as some help from a shop that builds axles and welds the tabs for a 4 link right to the pumpkins.

Here's the approach you need to look at it from. The weld is just a bit of insurance to keep the tubes from spinning. They are already rosetted in after being pressed in. You are just adding to what is already there. You would approach it entirely diffently if needed to have your welds be the only thing stopping it from spinning.

Clean the joint. Roughly mark it off mentally into 4 quadrants. Top, bottom, and either side. Do the welding with it on jackstands so you can turn it easily to only be welding in roughly the flat position. No overhead or vertical down welds.

In the first quadrant, run a bead for 1/3 of the quadrant. Immediately spin the housing and weld exactly opposite for the same distance in the opposite quadrant.

Do the left and right the same way and you should wind up with 4 welds and spaces between them about the same length as what you just welded. Do those spaces with the same rotate to weld opposite side method.

Welds pull stuff around when they cool so you're just trying to balance the pulling by welding on the opposite sides. Sounds complicated but it's not.

Preheat enough to warm it up with a small torch to drive the moisture out of the cast.

edit- Forgot to mention that besides the normal weld bond between the two metals, you also get a bit of mechanical help in that if the weld does crack, it won't be at the tube and it won't be in a straight line. So you have the jagged edge sticking into the cast edge that will help with the spinning. It won't be enough to totally stop the spin, but it will help.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 10:13 AM   #12
UCTJ
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PM NickB1907 I think he had his tubes welded on his 8.8 and he lives off of 1960 on the north side of Houston..see if the guy who welded his can weld yours.
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Unread 03-01-2007, 10:19 AM   #13
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i just used a stick welder with a cast specific rod

looks great to me
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Unread 03-01-2007, 10:57 AM   #14
notmyj
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I'm not saying that MIG wont work. I know a bunch of guys that used MIG to weld their tubes. I have never heard of them breaking the welds, but considering I have the materials, equipment, and ability to TIG them, I figured why not.

I am familiar with mrblaine's abilities from here and other boards, he definatly does some top notch stuff. I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything, just offered up how we do it.

Here are pics of the tubes on mine after I TIG'ed them.....



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If it has tracks, tires or tits, its gonna cause a problem.

"Everytime someone "upgrades" a D35, an angel looses its wings."

"Dizzy" - What SnoopDog would call a Distributor if he was a mechanic. I cringe every time I hear this moronic term

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Zevon
Send lawyers, guns and money. The **** has hit the fan...
92, 4.0, AW4, 8.8, D30, 15x10, 37's, SOA etc, etc
92, 2.5, 30, 8.8, 4.88, Locked, Winch, 15x8, 35's, 3.5" (RIP)
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Unread 03-01-2007, 11:20 AM   #15
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmyj
I'm not saying that MIG wont work. I know a bunch of guys that used MIG to weld their tubes. I have never heard of them breaking the welds, but considering I have the materials, equipment, and ability to TIG them, I figured why not.

I am familiar with mrblaine's abilities from here and other boards, he definatly does some top notch stuff. I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything, just offered up how we do it.

Here are pics of the tubes on mine after I TIG'ed them.....



If my tig was big enough, I'd knock the flux off of some nickel rod and do it that way as well if I was doing it for myself.

Next time you do one with the tig, try the normal rod for mild steel. You'll be able to tell if it's going to hold. It won't crack down the center of the weld right away. If it doesn't, then you're good to go.

Edit- btw- in the second pic, there is a crater at the weld finish. Have whoever is doing the welding add just a tad more rod to his finishing puddles to stop that. It's a good place for a crack to start.
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