Extreme Novice Installing PowerTrax No-Slip, TrueTrac, Crown 4340 rear axle shafts - Page 5 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 04-18-2012, 06:51 PM   #61
rb2biker
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This write up got me to dig into the rebuild of my d35. I was a little less brave on prying my carrier out while adjusting for my mesh pattern. Instead, I wrapped a tie down strap around the carrier and then to the hitch. I just used the built in ratchet tightening to pull the carrier out. Worked with little effort and plenty of control.

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Unread 07-14-2012, 10:55 AM   #62
incredibull
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Thanks a lot for this thread.. I have wanted to put in Truetracs front and rear for some time now, as I do a lot of snow/ice driving in the winter, lots of bad wet roads, etc. My D35 pinion bearings recently took a ****, so the time may be now. Unfortunately I also have 3.07 gears, so that means I need to do a complete gear setup as well. Lots of fun ahead.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #63
trez
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nice job with the write up
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Unread 10-15-2012, 10:36 PM   #64
STRATTON
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ok, i read the thread, great write up.

but i feel like im missing something here. the powetraxx true trac is a locker, just that its engament is very smooth and easy and it also is very well manared on road.

so agian its not a lsd at all, it is a true locker ?

might seem like a stupid question but right now im just not getting it lol.

tia.

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Unread 10-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #65
FarmerinVA
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Stratton, the PowerTrax "No-Slip" (manufactured by Richmond Gear), which I have in the front axle, is a true locker. Its engagement is a bit smoother than some other lunchbox lockers but I would not go so far as to call it smooth. The better way to explain it is that it's just flat-out locked when you are in 4WD, except when it disengages -- sometimes with a pretty noticeable pop -- briefly when you are going around a sharp corner on moderately firm ground.

In contrast, the TrueTrac (manufactured by Eaton), which I have in the rear axle, is a totally different device. It is a gear-driven limited slip. It is definitely not a locker, and it is totally smooth. It is completely impossible to tell how much it is working, except for the fact that I don't spin tires in mud and I don't get stuck anymore. I realize that this sounds too good to be true but it's really the truth. It is just absolutely great. It does have a weakness, which is that if you put one tire in the air, it loses traction, but that is not much of an issue where I wheel; that is more of a big-rock thing. If you need to hop rocks a lot and you don't want to be constantly feathering the brakes to overcome that weakness, don't go with the TT. Otherwise, I am a total believer now in the TT.
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Unread 10-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #66
STRATTON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerinVA View Post
Stratton, the PowerTrax "No-Slip" (manufactured by Richmond Gear), which I have in the front axle, is a true locker. Its engagement is a bit smoother than some other lunchbox lockers but I would not go so far as to call it smooth. The better way to explain it is that it's just flat-out locked when you are in 4WD, except when it disengages -- sometimes with a pretty noticeable pop -- briefly when you are going around a sharp corner on moderately firm ground.

In contrast, the TrueTrac (manufactured by Eaton), which I have in the rear axle, is a totally different device. It is a gear-driven limited slip. It is definitely not a locker, and it is totally smooth. It is completely impossible to tell how much it is working, except for the fact that I don't spin tires in mud and I don't get stuck anymore. I realize that this sounds too good to be true but it's really the truth. It is just absolutely great. It does have a weakness, which is that if you put one tire in the air, it loses traction, but that is not much of an issue where I wheel; that is more of a big-rock thing. If you need to hop rocks a lot and you don't want to be constantly feathering the brakes to overcome that weakness, don't go with the TT. Otherwise, I am a total believer now in the TT.
thank your for that explination.

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Unread 05-23-2013, 09:21 AM   #67
FarmerinVA
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Just a short update. I finally encountered the weakness of the TrueTrac during actual driving this weekend: on a downhill where the TrueTrac'd axle was in the rear with not much weight on it.

This time of year the ground is soggy everywhere in the Virginia Piedmont. I was turning around on a service path when the front of the Jeep slipped downhill, leaving me on a direct downhill-facing slope that may have been as much as 30 degrees. All four tires were still on the ground, fairly level. Tried to reverse but the passenger rear wheel just spun on the wet switchgrass. No problem: put it in 4HI and the front locker backed me out (love that thing). As I came up closer to level (in other words, as weight transferred to the rear) the TrueTrac noticeably kicked in. Total spin mark was barely larger than the tire contact patch; maybe 14 inches. I didn't try the feather-the-brake trick because I was actually curious about this as an experiment.

Someone can probably calculate what percentage of the vehicle weight was in the front at that time (just me in the driver seat). The lesson is that if you unweight the TrueTrac axle substantially, you're going to break free. No surprise but since I've been boosting the device, I thought I should mention when it doesn't help you. This was expected and it is literally the only time in two years of actual field use (as opposed to goofing around to test the thing) that the TrueTrac has let me slip, so I'm still a very happy customer.
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Unread 01-03-2014, 06:14 PM   #68
FarmerinVA
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Another update. I put the vehicle through a workout in the last few days, supporting duck hunts in cold, sloppy weather. Rutted, potholed mud slogs to beaver ponds and pulling boats and trailers around wet fields and on riverbanks. I never needed to put it in 4WD except for in the worst of the logging holes - the TrueTrac was that good. One example stands out: pulling 1000 pounds plus of jon boat, motor, gear and trailer off a steep sandy river landing, back wheels in the water, up a slope... the TrueTrac spun both wheels and pulled me right through (kicked up too much sand in fact; next time I'll use 4WD). It wasn't the Rubicon trail, I'll grant you, but this was all I need out of a Jeep. In this particular situation, a locker would not have made me any better off, and conceivably could have been worse given the need for lateral stability in all this mess. So, this flatlander is happy.
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My do-it-yourself install thread for a TrueTrac in the rear, upgraded shafts, and a PowerTrax No-Slip in the front:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ex...hafts-1234745/
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Unread 03-09-2014, 10:05 AM   #69
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This thread is glorious! I've found that approval from "accounting" goes a lot smoother when I do the work myself. This, as you said in the beginning, is one of those upgrades I was nervous about doing myself. Thanks again! I will be doing this myself soon.
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Unread 04-02-2014, 02:24 AM   #70
Jeeper69
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Can someone inform me as to why Pinon pre-load/load, backlash, etc etc does not need to be measured when reinstalling the Dana 30 carrier like on other Ring and Pinion Swap write-ups? Pardon my ignorance.
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Unread 04-02-2014, 06:22 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeper69
Can someone inform me as to why Pinon pre-load/load, backlash, etc etc does not need to be measured when reinstalling the Dana 30 carrier like on other Ring and Pinion Swap write-ups? Pardon my ignorance.
When installing a lunchbox locker(such as the powertrax), all that is being changed is the spider gears. They have no effect on the relationship of the pinion and ring gear. The same carrier is used with the same shims and the pinion doesn't need to be touched or changed in anyway.

If you were to change the carrier (such as the true-trac), backlash would likely need to be set. While the position of the ring gear mounting flange is similar from one carrier to the next, it is not guaranteed that they will be the exact same. There is a tolerance range on that dimension so one carrier may be spot on to nominal, the next maybe a few thousandths different which would move the ring gear relative to the pinion. The difference would then be compensated by adding/subtracting shims to adjust the position of the carrier and consequently the backlash.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 08:51 AM   #72
FarmerinVA
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rchase is exactly right. You can see on posts 23 & 24 above how I was measuring the backlash. You need that dial indicator tool. That's not necessary on the lunchbox locker for the reasons rchase mentions, and it's not necessary for either one of them to mess with the pinion depth.

The whole point of the carrier is to put the ring gear true-to-center and true-to-perpendicular around the rotational axis of the axle. That axis will not change, no matter what carrier you use, so the ring gear's depth in relation to the pinion also will not change. Therefore you don't need to deal with the depth of the pinion. You only need to concern yourself with the side-to-side position of the ring gear, which is what controls the backlash.

And it absolutely will change. I thought that I could get pretty close by just measuring minutely where the ring gear mounting surface was on the old carrier, versus on the new carrier, and adding shims to make them equal when they were on the bench with the setup bearings in place. But as everyone correctly predicted, that turns out only to get you in the ballpark -- once it's under tension during a test fitting in the axle, the measurements were still many hundredths off. I believe I was about .030 off, which is way out of spec. Thus the time-consuming process of taking the carrier back out, adding and removing shims, re testing, etc. Then installing the real bearings only after it was 100% right.

I was impressed at the fact that the setup bearings were so close to the real bearings. The difference between the backlash during the test phase with the setup bearings, versus the final with the real bearings pressed on, was only .001, which is acceptable. And my Jeep has not exploded since, which is the real test.

Edit: should have made clear, when I said backlash will change, I was talking only about when you install a new carrier like the TrueTrac. Not for the lunchbox locker.
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My do-it-yourself install thread for a TrueTrac in the rear, upgraded shafts, and a PowerTrax No-Slip in the front:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ex...hafts-1234745/
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Unread 04-03-2014, 04:01 PM   #73
Teal97TJ
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Guy`s I have done both of these mods. This past winter was the worst we have had in a few years around here.
Jeep was great no trouble at all. Thanks for the write up.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 05:16 PM   #74
Jeeper69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerinVA View Post
rchase is exactly right. You can see on posts 23 & 24 above how I was measuring the backlash. You need that dial indicator tool. That's not necessary on the lunchbox locker for the reasons rchase mentions, and it's not necessary for either one of them to mess with the pinion depth.

The whole point of the carrier is to put the ring gear true-to-center and true-to-perpendicular around the rotational axis of the axle. That axis will not change, no matter what carrier you use, so the ring gear's depth in relation to the pinion also will not change. Therefore you don't need to deal with the depth of the pinion. You only need to concern yourself with the side-to-side position of the ring gear, which is what controls the backlash.

And it absolutely will change. I thought that I could get pretty close by just measuring minutely where the ring gear mounting surface was on the old carrier, versus on the new carrier, and adding shims to make them equal when they were on the bench with the setup bearings in place. But as everyone correctly predicted, that turns out only to get you in the ballpark -- once it's under tension during a test fitting in the axle, the measurements were still many hundredths off. I believe I was about .030 off, which is way out of spec. Thus the time-consuming process of taking the carrier back out, adding and removing shims, re testing, etc. Then installing the real bearings only after it was 100% right.

I was impressed at the fact that the setup bearings were so close to the real bearings. The difference between the backlash during the test phase with the setup bearings, versus the final with the real bearings pressed on, was only .001, which is acceptable. And my Jeep has not exploded since, which is the real test.
Oh, I assumed that if the carrier itself was moved at all in relation to the pinion(like removing it for installation of the lunchbox locker), that the stuff would have to be remeasured.
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