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Unread 05-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #151
purplepig
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My friend needs help. The Jeep has a 3inch lift and everything else is stock except for the adjustable trackbar we put in to try and solve the DW. It was aligned after the lift and everything was good. She traded 33's for 35's. The 35's were balanced when installed. The Jeep only has about 25K miles on it so I don't think it is ball joints and I don't see anything loose. She wants to sell it out of frustration. I am trying to help her solve the DW. What is the best place to start? control arms?

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Unread 05-16-2010, 07:02 PM   #152
flatlander757
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Get the alignment specs... if it was aligned to stock specs then that doesn't do any good.
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Originally Posted by 2006 Sport
Being able to make vroom vroom noises in Tonys Jeep was the highlight of my life.
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Unread 05-16-2010, 07:17 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFWCook View Post
Sorry to but in but I need some help!

1999 TJ 4.0L RE 3.5 in SA lift with Fixed lowers and OEM upper on front, adjustable rear uppers and fixed lowers on the back. In the past I have aligned it myself with the old two rods and tape measure trick and never had any issues.

Anyway I let my Swampers wear out way beyond the point to replace. They were so bad I had bad vibration from them. Well I just replaced them with Mickey Thompson MTZ 35x12.5/15 and replaced the worn-out steering stabilizer too. I grabbed the tape measure to make sure the alignment was true and it needed a tad bit of adjustment. I assume this was due to going from a 34 to a 35. Well I drove it a bit and had some shimming at high speed say 50+ MPH. So I crawled back under it and measured again made a small tweak and figured that would do. Well I still have the shimmy at 50+. So I decided to have a local shop give it the once over since I guess I was doing something wrong.

Well they got:

LF -0.5 RF -0.9 Camber
LF 5.4 RF 5.3 Castor
LF .12 -0.09 Toe
Total Toe 0.03
Steer Ahead .11
LR -0.5 RR -0.8 Camber
LR 0.04 RR 0.22 Toe
Total Toe 0.26
Thrust Angle -0.09

Before they made any adjustments. Now itís at:

LF-0.5 RF -0.9 Camber
LF 5.4 RF 5.3 Caster
LF .16 RF .11 toe
Total Toe .27
Steer Ahead 0.03
LR -0.5 RR -0.7 Camber
LR 0.05 RR 0.20 Toe
Total Toe 0.25
Thrust Angle -0.08

Anyway Discount tire mounted the 5 wheels and balanced them and I had them check for any wheel damage. The tech there I have used several times and heís top notch he said he zeroed out the tires on the balance.

I have crawled up under and checked everything twice and nothing appears loose and when I put a wrench on it, it seems good and to torque.

I have put maybe 100 miles on the tires since install and canít seem to shake the shimmy.

Any ideaís am I just overlooking something. It feels like a very mild death wobble and seems to stay with the speed until I get up to like 65+ or more.

Thanks for any help.

You have bias ply swampers... good luck getting them to balance with normal weighs.

You know that bias ply tires flat-spot overnight right? If you are trying to use normal weights, you need to drive on them for a good while, try 20mi highway driving to be safe and get them good and warm and round again... take the Jeep to the tire shop and get it off the ground immediately!! Don't give the tires a chance to start flat spotting again. You can balance them flatspotted but as soon as they warm up the balance will be off again.

FWIW I balance my 40" LTBs w/ 14oz of BBs in each tire. I had no steering stabilizer and after driving a short while had no problems with wobbles or anything... occasional slight shimmy but that's to be expected w/ 40s. My hydro assist acts as a 1400psi steering stabilizer now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 Sport
Being able to make vroom vroom noises in Tonys Jeep was the highlight of my life.
Currently Jeepless.
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Unread 05-16-2010, 08:31 PM   #154
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Quote:
Get the alignment specs... if it was aligned to stock specs then that doesn't do any good.
ok. How do we get them to not use stock specs?
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Unread 05-16-2010, 08:32 PM   #155
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Quote:
Get the alignment specs... if it was aligned to stock specs then that doesn't do any good.
ok. thanks
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Unread 05-27-2010, 07:05 PM   #156
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Caster changed affect toe-in?

silly question. I am trying to fine tune my front driveshaft angle and I am wondering if moving the pinion angle a degree would affect the toe-in? I had set the pinion previously and toe in but now I changed the pinion a degree to get rid of some small vibes felt when I go over bumps. Would the toe-in be affected if I moved the pinion down 1 degree? Perhaps someone can explain. I know the wheel is not centered again which makes sense to me but not sure about the toe-in. Please let me know what you guys think!
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Unread 05-28-2010, 01:52 AM   #157
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I changed my mind about my preferred castor. I had preferred 7 degrees, but now prefer 6 as you suggested for my LJ.

Here's why.

7 does best on highway. Tracks straight on highway, but tires squeal during tight turns in parking lots.

5 does best around town and in tight turns in parking lots. No tire squeal. Doesn't track as straight on highway.

6 is a great compromise.
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Unread 05-28-2010, 11:18 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermeyg View Post
silly question. I am trying to fine tune my front driveshaft angle and I am wondering if moving the pinion angle a degree would affect the toe-in? I had set the pinion previously and toe in but now I changed the pinion a degree to get rid of some small vibes felt when I go over bumps. Would the toe-in be affected if I moved the pinion down 1 degree? Perhaps someone can explain. I know the wheel is not centered again which makes sense to me but not sure about the toe-in. Please let me know what you guys think!
Any thoughts guys?
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Unread 05-29-2010, 07:28 AM   #159
PurpleWave
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What Alignment Specs to use???

Please tell me what specs I should use to align my 99 Sahara with a 4" Rough Country lift and 33x12.50 tires. It is all suspension lift with the long lower arms. I had it aligned recently with this information that I picked up off this forum "Caster is the only thing that changes and with 33" tires, 5.5 to 6 degrees is about right. The factory sets it to 7 degrees which is suitable for smaller tires like 30". The .15 toe-in angle remains the same no matter what size tire and the camber angle is fixed, it can't be adjusted without installing adjustable ball joints." It chewed right through the right front tire. Somehow it may have came out of align, but I have not off-roaded it or anything rough since it was done. I need help quick it's at Firestone for alignment now...yes I bought the lifetime deal the first time in. Your information in this thread is great! Thanks for putting it out here.
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Unread 06-06-2010, 09:41 PM   #160
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flatlander757--

Where is your shop in Va Beach? I'm a fellow 757 TJ owner and need some alignment/suspension help on my rig. Ever since having an alignment done when my last set of tires was installed (I obviously should have read your post first!) my Jeep has been whacked out...I don't know what they did to it, but it tracks straight as an arrow while coasting, but pulls significantly to the left when any measurable amount of gas is applied. It's also very sloppy to return to center...feels like there's a big dead zone in the middle of the steering wheel. I've been round & round with this shop, but they just don't seem to understand (and/or care) about the nuances of a lifted Jeep...I know it wasn't the purpose of your post, but given that I'm in the same locale, I'd like to bring it into a fellow Jeeper to see if you can't get me tracking straight & true again...
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Unread 07-22-2010, 02:44 PM   #161
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My Jeep is driving like crap compared to my last TJ...I bought it with 3" lift and 33" KM2s on stock Rubi wheels with spacers. It had minor DW when I got it so I got JKS adj lower front control arms, had them installed, tires balanced, and alignment, new steering stabilizer (I know this doesnt solve it but thought might as well upgrade the stock one).

So after they installed control arms and aligned it their first run was :
Camber
Left -0.7
Right -0.4

Caster
Left 6.0
Right 5.7

Toe
Left 0.34
Right 0.52


So it drove so bad I went to another shop for alignment while I was in an appointment the thing was rattling my teeth out and felt dangerous on the highway

Now its
Camber
Left -0.7
Right -0.5

Caster
Left 6.0
Right 5.7

Toe
Left 0.14
Right 0.13

To me it still drives like crap, it doesnt feel comfortable at all especially at high speeds...seems like there is a minor vibration coming up through the floor and pedals, and at times a vibration in the steering wheel but not death wobble, just a minor fast twitchy side to side, and when you hit bumps it seems "not right"...hard for me to explain but just comparing it to how my 98 TJ with 4-4.5" lift and 33s felt, which drove like a "dream" to me...all I have ever driven is lifted 4x4s, so its not like Im unfamiliar with the quirks...ive been a 4x4 guy my entire life, mostly running mudders...and now the most expensive 4x4 Ive ever owned, an 05 Rubicon with a puny 3" lift, drives the worst out of anything Ive ever owned.

Tires balanced twice now they are good...I told them to tighten everything on the front end and gave them the specs, they said they put it on lift and had someone turn the wheel back and forth and visually inspected and nothing is loose....Im gonna have to tell them to please torque everything down even if it doesnt look loose, just so Im not wondering.

So with the current alignment specs, is it something else? Trac bar not adjusted properly? They think I should try the heavy duty Currie tie rod set up and that might "fix it" feeling like crap....that doesnt make sense to me though, what if that doesnt correct it? Although as they said at some point I should upgrade the tie rod anyways since the stock one is so pathetic, so it wont hurt to do so now and see if it helps the front end.

The control arms right now are about at 16"....and with the caster where it is according to some suggestions in this thread the control arms and caster wouldnt be the problem at this point? Or do I try to back it down to 5-5.5 caster and see if that makes it ride better?
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Unread 09-16-2010, 07:43 AM   #162
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I've dug through the Haynes manual, looked through dozens of suspension lift threads and tried to ask the 'Google' in numerous different ways. I cannot seem to find what the proper angle is for the rear axle spring perch (on a TJ 2DR). It seems to be facing a few degrees rearwards, producing a bit of a arch in the spring, but if they need to be replaced I'm not sure what the tolerances are.

Thanks,
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Unread 09-16-2010, 02:06 PM   #163
Jerry Bransford
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There is no required spring perch angle for a coil sprung TJ, spring perch angles are only specific for leaf spring Jeeps like the older CJ or Wrangler YJ.
The axles are set up to have the correct pinion angle with everything else like the front caster angle being secondary to that. The pinion angle is what is critical, not the spring perch angle.
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Unread 12-13-2010, 07:42 PM   #164
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okay, after reading all of this, here is mine.

2000 TJ, OME 2in lift, stock CA's

I noticed when i bought it stock, the right front tire was worn a lot more than the others. When I put the lift on, i also put on currie track bar and currie steering. The last time i had it jacked up, i tried to move the tire to check for play and they seemed solid, but the mileage on unit bearing, ball joints is unknown (128K on jeep).

I notice on the highway it wanders left and right, but sometimes it seems to steer perfect. I havent worried about it much, but i just noticed that the same front right tire (new tire) is wearing faster. Where should i start? i had it aligned after installing new parts, but didnt seem to make much difference, they didnt give me a sheet either. There is a sears near my work, maybe give them a try? I dont want to buy new ball joints, unit bearings, arms, etc and it not help?
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Unread 12-13-2010, 07:45 PM   #165
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