[Imped]

Awesome, then you have cleared up my decision on who I'm going with. Currie control arms it is.

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Carl, there is absolutely nothing heavy duty about Clevite bushings. Did you know that when the factory is doing their stop and go continuous test that twice within the two week test they have to pull the rig into the shop and replace the control arm bushings?

Again, it's not how the arm is constructed, it's the fact that it has Clevite bushings which are design around the range of motion exhibited by the stock suspension. Change those parameters and they aren't long for this world if you wheel.

So in a control arm with a flex joint of some sort(be it a JJ, or what ever), on one end, what would you suggest for the other end? It doesn't make sense to put a flex joint on one end to promote flexibility, and a polyurethane bushing on the other end, that is normally used to reduce suspension flex. To me that almost cancels out each other. So if a Clevite bushing isn't going to live up the the stresses of off roading, and a Poly bushing(although a tougher bushing) isn't cohesive to a flexy suspension, is another flex type joint my only option. What about the front UCA bushing?

Hell I've tried several times, and I can't write what I want to say so I'll just post a link to the thread:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=978010

If no poly joint, or JJ, and the Clevite bushing can't handle the abuse of off roading, is the lesser of three evils a WJ bushing? Or is there another option?

[SierraDave]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

What about the front UCA bushing?

Currie makes a kit to replace the front UCA bushings with Johnny Joints.

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/product.aspx?id=1277

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

So in a control arm with a flex joint of some sort(be it a JJ, or what ever), on one end, what would you suggest for the other end? It doesn't make sense to put a flex joint on one end to promote flexibility, and a polyurethane bushing on the other end, that is normally used to reduce suspension flex. To me that almost cancels out each other. So if a Clevite bushing isn't going to live up the the stresses of off roading, and a Poly bushing(although a tougher bushing) isn't cohesive to a flexy suspension, is another flex type joint my only option. What about the front UCA bushing?

Hell I've tried several times, and I can't write what I want to say so I'll just post a link to the thread:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=978010

If no poly joint, or JJ, and the Clevite bushing can't handle the abuse of off roading, is the lesser of three evils a WJ bushing? Or is there another option?

There is absolutely no reason NOT to run control arms with Currie JJ's at both ends. They have enough isolation due to the urethane rubber race to have great ride quality and enough toughness to last almost forever.

[mudb8]

Originally Posted by j0nesy

my experience is second hand ... ill admit that. more than one person i know that has run Johnny Joints on a DD has mentioned how the ride suffered ... everyone has said the stock rubber bushings isolated vibrations much better than the Johnny joints ... and a simple understanding of urethane races and rubber can explain that.

i was unaware than Currie sold thicker washers to take up the slack ... though i still believe the BF joints to be a better design ... having the ability to tighten up the joint without spending extra money is always a plus.

probably more due to the lift height with short arms, not the joints...

[j0nesy]

Originally Posted by mudb8

probably more due to the lift height with short arms, not the joints...

all of the aforementioned joints are long arms on lower lifts.

[TeraFlex]

I have to correct the misinformation being given here: Clevite bushings are very good for both street and offroad use, and last nearly forever. There are plenty of other bushings made for use as aftermarket replacements for OEM bushings that are garbage, and will give up or fall apart after just a few months or even weeks of use. If you use genuine "Clevite" (Tenneco) bushings, they last for years under heavy usage.

In my past life I used them from time to time on custom suspension setups. A couple of examples here:

This Bronco has a rear triangulated 4 link, using large rod ends at one end of each link, and a Clevite bushing at the other. It's been changed 2 or 3 times throughout it's history, but the original bushings it was set up with are STILL in use today, after about 4 years or so. He competed in UROC, WE-Rock, and UROC Rockcross during that time.




This is a recreational buggy, triangulated 4 links front and rear, using a Clevite bushing at one end of each link, and an RE flex joint at the other. It's been in the same configuration for about 5 years now, all on the original bushings and joints.





Naturally, you can choose to use them or not, but please don't be caught up in the "it's OEM, so it must be inferior" mentality. That's the thinking that made polyurethane control arm bushings prevalent throughout the industry.

[Savvy]

JJs both ends and I like the ride a lot in my 03.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by TeraFlex

I have to correct the misinformation being given here: Clevite bushings are very good for both street and offroad use, and last nearly forever.

You have your experiences in non Jeep rigs, we have ours. I've replaced far too many Clevite Brand bushings in stock arms and aftermarket arms to have any respect for their durability. I don't make this crap up and I personally don't care what you run, but my experiences with Clevite brand bushings are what I've stated.

Clevite is also the OEM brand and the story I related about swapping out the bushings in the two week test came straight from a Jeep Suspension engineer.

How would I even know to make that up?

[Imped]

Guys, I've made up my mind about what arm I'm going with. Please let this thread die or close it in order to not get too off of the original topic. Again, thanks for EVERYONE'S input.

[TeraFlex]

I never said you made anything up, I just wanted to state my experience with the bushings. I chose some non-Jeep examples because they've been used hard, offroad only, for a long time. I have plenty of Jeep examples as well, but generally they're dual-purpose rigs without the abuse those posted above have endured.

I apologize if I riled you up, as it appears I did--that was not my intent. I just wanted to offer a differing view and experience.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by TeraFlex

I never said you made anything up, I just wanted to state my experience with the bushings. I chose some non-Jeep examples because they've been used hard, offroad only, for a long time. I have plenty of Jeep examples as well, but generally they're dual-purpose rigs without the abuse those posted above have endured.

I apologize if I riled you up, as it appears I did--that was not my intent. I just wanted to offer a differing view and experience.

I'm not riled, but I can't fathom why the experiences are so disparate. I wouldn't use a Clevite bushing for anything other than mounting a muffler on a custom hanger or for motor mounts, because we can't make them last in Suspension applications, nor can most of the folks that I've wheeled with over the years.

To add to that, you and I both know that if you droop your axles when you install arms with Clevite bushings in them and then tighten down the control arm bolts, that the bushings will fail in very short order because you've preloaded them one direction.

Why is that?

[TeraFlex]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

I'm not riled, but I can't fathom why the experiences are so disparate. I wouldn't use a Clevite bushing for anything other than mounting a muffler on a custom hanger or for motor mounts, because we can't make them last in Suspension applications, nor can most of the folks that I've wheeled with over the years.

To add to that, you and I both know that if you droop your axles when you install arms with Clevite bushings in them and then tighten down the control arm bolts, that the bushings will fail in very short order because you've preloaded them one direction.

Why is that?

That's funny, I just made motor mounts a couple weeks ago for my project using Clevite bushings.

The bushings perform well through a certain range of motion. If they're preloaded one direction, they'll exceed that range. If they're tightened while somewhere in the middle (ride height), then they only move (from center) half as far.

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by imped4now

Guys, I've made up my mind about what arm I'm going with. Please let this thread die or close it in order to not get too off of the original topic. Again, thanks for EVERYONE'S input.

I'm learning valuable info!

[Savvy]

[QUOTE=TeraFlex;6371488]That's funny, I just made motor mounts a couple weeks ago for my project using Clevite bushings.

QUOTE]

I can wait to see that motor flex!