[Imped]

Hey guys, I'm planning on replacing the stock stamped control arms very soon in order to start the next stage of my TJ's progression. Here are my options--

(1) The Currie double-JJ kit--awesome quality, complete, good price, but will the double JJ's be ok for a DD? That's the only factor keeping me away from them.
http://www.currieenterprises.com/CEStore/Product.aspx?id=1199

(2) Rokmen--awesome arms, period. But the full set will be more than $100 over the Currie set.

(3) Rock Krawler lowers and Rokmen uppers--thinking this because RK lowers are $180 a pair as opposed to Rokmen's $250 and are solid beef. They have the JJ at the frame end and a poly bushing at the other. Poly=no no or ok? But, has anyone ran RK lowers on anything under their advertised minimum lift requirement of 3.5 inches? I'm sticking with 2.5".

I don't want to hear that adjustable CA's aren't needed for 2.5" of lift. Not in my opinion. All input is great appreciated!

[j0nesy]

flex joints do tend to wear out over time ... they get sloppy, they get loud, and they get rough.

i have been waiting for a company to compete with the JJ for a long time ... and Ballistic Fabrication finally did it.

better design and slightly cheaper ($37.99 per joint ... $2 cheaper than Currie).

their design allows you to tighten up the joint as it wears out ... i just put in an order for 8 of them to finish my 4 link ....

unfortunately BF doesnt manufacture arms specific to the TJ ... so you would hve to fab them yourself using their joints ....

link to the new joints ... they are even CrMo ....

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Forged-Chromolly-263quot-Ballistic-Joint_p_1636.html

[Imped]

That's an awesome looking joint and some nice info, but it doesn't exactly answer my questions. Thanks though.

[j0nesy]

im jsut saying ... snap ring joints get sloppy and you cant tighten them back up ... that is definitely something you should be thinking about for long term cost ...

if you only have the three listed options ... go with the 3rd.

poly bushings are fine ... rough and they wear out .. but they wear out just the the johnny joints do on a DD ... and they are cheaper to replace.

[erickpl]

So are you wanting adj arms or NOT wanting adj arms?

I have a 2.5" lift too and want to replace my CA's, so I'm watching this thread. I'd LOVE to find arms long enough for a 2.5" lift to put the axles back in their stock location. But I'm not wanting stock short length or full long arm length. So adjustable makes sense to me (I just don't see a 2.5" specific fixed CA unless I have them fabbed - in which case I'd go with the joints Jonesy posted).

Tagged this thread.

[Imped]

Originally Posted by j0nesy

im jsut saying ... snap ring joints get sloppy and you cant tighten them back up ... that is definitely something you should be thinking about for long term cost ...

if you only have the three listed options ... go with the 3rd.

poly bushings are fine ... rough and they wear out .. but they wear out just the the johnny joints do on a DD ... and they are cheaper to replace.

Absolutely, thanks for the helpful info.

Originally Posted by erickpl

So are you wanting adj arms or NOT wanting adj arms?

I have a 2.5" lift too and want to replace my CA's, so I'm watching this thread. I'd LOVE to find arms long enough for a 2.5" lift to put the axles back in their stock location. But I'm not wanting stock short length or full long arm length. So adjustable makes sense to me (I just don't see a 2.5" specific fixed CA unless I have them fabbed - in which case I'd go with the joints Jonesy posted).

Tagged this thread.

I am definitely going adjustable....I think it would be stupid to spend the money and not leave yourself with adjustment. After all, why do people actually get new control arms? Strength, articulation, and adjustment of length for pinion angle and alignment specs.

Anyway, I love the Currie arms but I wish they offered a JJ/rubber bushing set as opposed to the double-JJ set. That would be perfect.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by j0nesy

im jsut saying ... snap ring joints get sloppy and you cant tighten them back up ... that is definitely something you should be thinking about for long term cost ...

if you only have the three listed options ... go with the 3rd.

poly bushings are fine ... rough and they wear out .. but they wear out just the the johnny joints do on a DD ... and they are cheaper to replace.

Only someone who has never run Currie Johnny Joints would make the comments you do and have the opinion you have. So far, you haven't espoused a single correct factoid about the Currie JJ's.

Currie's JJ's do not get sloppy over time, they rarely if ever wear out, they provide far superior isolation to any joint with hard plastic races and if you do happen to wear one enough that it needs a tune up, Currie has a set of slightly thicker end washers to add in some more preload.

I've been beating on the same set of JJ's for about 7-8 years and have yet to need the washers or wear one out. Nor have any of the other hundred or so I'm around continuously worn to the point of noise or sloppiness either.

Please try to stay within the realm of products you have direct experience with, because JJ's ain't one of 'em.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by imped4now

Anyway, I love the Currie arms but I wish they offered a JJ/rubber bushing set as opposed to the double-JJ set. That would be perfect.

There is no such thing as a heavy duty arm that uses an OEM style rubber bushing.

[TeraFlex]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

There is no such thing as a heavy duty arm that uses an OEM style rubber bushing.

Not quite true. Tera's arms use a spherical joint at one end, and an OEM style rubber bushing at the other.

Assuming we're still talking about short arms:



I don't think double Johnny Joints will make you unhappy. They certainly won't be noisy and squeaky or clunk around when they get loose like an all-metal spherical end, they do retain some noise/vibration damping. Having said that, a bushing there makes things just a bit quieter and smoother.

[j0nesy]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Only someone who has never run Currie Johnny Joints would make the comments you do and have the opinion you have. So far, you haven't espoused a single correct factoid about the Currie JJ's.

Currie's JJ's do not get sloppy over time, they rarely if ever wear out, they provide far superior isolation to any joint with hard plastic races and if you do happen to wear one enough that it needs a tune up, Currie has a set of slightly thicker end washers to add in some more preload.

I've been beating on the same set of JJ's for about 7-8 years and have yet to need the washers or wear one out. Nor have any of the other hundred or so I'm around continuously worn to the point of noise or sloppiness either.

Please try to stay within the realm of products you have direct experience with, because JJ's ain't one of 'em.

my experience is second hand ... ill admit that. more than one person i know that has run Johnny Joints on a DD has mentioned how the ride suffered ... everyone has said the stock rubber bushings isolated vibrations much better than the Johnny joints ... and a simple understanding of urethane races and rubber can explain that.

i was unaware than Currie sold thicker washers to take up the slack ... though i still believe the BF joints to be a better design ... having the ability to tighten up the joint without spending extra money is always a plus.

[marylandjeeper]

don't jks arms use rubber bushings at both ends?

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by TeraFlex

Not quite true. Tera's arms use a spherical joint at one end, and an OEM style rubber bushing at the other.

Assuming we're still talking about short arms:



I don't think double Johnny Joints will make you unhappy. They certainly won't be noisy and squeaky or clunk around when they get loose like an all-metal spherical end, they do retain some noise/vibration damping. Having said that, a bushing there makes things just a bit quieter and smoother.

Carl, there is absolutely nothing heavy duty about Clevite bushings. Did you know that when the factory is doing their stop and go continuous test that twice within the two week test they have to pull the rig into the shop and replace the control arm bushings?

Again, it's not how the arm is constructed, it's the fact that it has Clevite bushings which are design around the range of motion exhibited by the stock suspension. Change those parameters and they aren't long for this world if you wheel.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by j0nesy

my experience is second hand ... ill admit that. more than one person i know that has run Johnny Joints on a DD has mentioned how the ride suffered ... everyone has said the stock rubber bushings isolated vibrations much better than the Johnny joints ... and a simple understanding of urethane races and rubber can explain that.

Yeah, and I'll bet if you dig into their so called JJ complaints, you'll find that they have lumped all of the other cartridge style joints into the same category. You might be surprised to know just how few of them actually run Currie Johnny Joints.

i was unaware than Currie sold thicker washers to take up the slack ... though i still believe the BF joints to be a better design ... having the ability to tighten up the joint without spending extra money is always a plus.

It's only a plus if you ever need to do it. Personally, I don't know of anyone that ever has.

[Imped]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Only someone who has never run Currie Johnny Joints would make the comments you do and have the opinion you have. So far, you haven't espoused a single correct factoid about the Currie JJ's.

Currie's JJ's do not get sloppy over time, they rarely if ever wear out, they provide far superior isolation to any joint with hard plastic races and if you do happen to wear one enough that it needs a tune up, Currie has a set of slightly thicker end washers to add in some more preload.

I've been beating on the same set of JJ's for about 7-8 years and have yet to need the washers or wear one out. Nor have any of the other hundred or so I'm around continuously worn to the point of noise or sloppiness either.

Please try to stay within the realm of products you have direct experience with, because JJ's ain't one of 'em.

mrblaine, thanks again for coming to the rescue. Thanks to everyone else's input as well. So, please answer me one question...if I go with Currie's double JJ control arm kit, I know it will perform excellent when wheelin, which is what I'm after. But at the same time, will it change how my jeep handles on the street or allow more vibration or noise through to the cab? My jeep is my only vehicle and I use it both for pretty serious wheeling anywhere from 1-3x/month as well as driving to and from school, etc.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by imped4now

mrblaine, thanks again for coming to the rescue. Thanks to everyone else's input as well. So, please answer me one question...if I go with Currie's double JJ control arm kit, I know it will perform excellent when wheelin, which is what I'm after. But at the same time, will it change how my jeep handles on the street or allow more vibration or noise through to the cab? My jeep is my only vehicle and I use it both for pretty serious wheeling anywhere from 1-3x/month as well as driving to and from school, etc.

This is really simple. I don't know of anyone that has ever run double Currie JJ arms and taken them off to put OEM bushing ends back in because the ride was exhibiting an increase in NVH. In fact, the only folks who ever tout the myth that they are harsher are the ones who have never run them.

Generally, they tighten up the handling, the ride quality goes up, and the durability is beyond outstanding.

If you go over to ROF and dig around, there are several pertinent discussions comparing Clevite bushings and CJJ's.

A few of the folks I spent a lot of time with, getting their rigs dialed in with the Currie arms and after the swap, it's pretty unaminous that I was correct and there is no diminishment in ride quality or detrimental effects from switching.