[Anticanman]

Without jumping too hard into this debate, I'd like to reiterate a point. If air lines were so vulnerable, why does OX offer an air actuated package? I think this thread has been entertaining as well as informative. If I were to buy one it would be the reasoning I listed on the first page of this longwinded arguement that has yielded nothing but facts that are proven by both sides for both sides.

And without getting banned (fingers crossed) with the number of moderators chiming in, why hasn't this been moved to the engines and drivetrain section?

[Robert J. yates]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

I wasn't aware the Detroit Locker has an issue when installed in a Dana 30. What happens to them Robert?

The reason ARB re-designed their D30 locker is because they had the same issue that the D30 Detroit still has... axle flex causes pre-load to change on the case which results in the case bolts losening up and falling out. Losing all of them can lead to some rather serious failure

I had to check mine regularly because I routinely found those bolts laying on the bottom of the diff. Loctite didn't work. If you remember Gary Hall's ACRA Jeep that Blaine built, Gary went so far as to actually weld the D30 Detroit case together to slow it down. Making sure the install is on the tight end of the pre-load specification will slow it down but not eliminate it. ARB's new design 2 piece case eliminates those bolts and the problem altogether.

[Robert J. yates]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

Though I guess if we get into it that deep I wouldn't be wanting a LP D30 nor a D35 either, least not in terms of dependability and being far from home.

Now I know you are being disengenuous... equating the reliability of a D30 or D35 under certain use conditions (to an ARB) is quite a reach.... nice try

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by Robert J. yates

The reason ARB re-designed their D30 locker is because they had the same issue that the D30 Detroit still has... axle flex causes pre-load to change on the case which results in the case bolts losening up and falling out. Losing all of them can lead to some rather serious failure
I had to check mine regularly because I routinely found those bolts laying on the bottom of the diff. Loctite didn't work. If you remember Gary Hall's ACRA Jeep that Blaine built, Gary went so far as to actually weld the D30 Detroit case together to slow it down. Making sure the install is on the tight end of the pre-load specification will slow it doesn't but not eliminate it. ARB's new design 2 piece case eliminates those bolts and the problem altogether.

Gotcha, I recall that problem with Gary Hall now. ARCA, that's been more than a few years! I wasn't even thinking along that line of axle flex when I asked, thanks Robert.

[Robert J. yates]

The thing that I am impressed about with ARB is that they identified the problem and then solved it. Detroit is still selling the same ol' crap on tooling that has probably paid for itself hundreds of times over. Detroits are OK but they have reliability issues as well and just because they have no means for human activation doesn't mean they are bulletproof. Another little Detroit trait that I like is what happens to them from wind-up shock when a tire suddenly gets traction... they like to go #BOOM when that happens

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

...Only Ox feels the need for a back-up mechanical lock for when their cable mechanism fails.

Careful now:
http://www.shopwiki.com/l/ARB-Air-Lo...mpaign=Default


There are so many of these debates it gets laughable.

Manual vs. auto
Hard top vs. soft top
D44 vs. 8.8
AT vs. MT
4.56 vs. 4.88 vs. 5.13
OX vs. ARB

So much of what comes out in these debates is internet BS with supporters on each side spewing forth with worthless drivel. Each side will regurgitate their favorite arguments while equally forcefully degrading the other side. Unfortunately the good points that each side make are too often lost in the BS. I feel for the poor guy that is trying to figure out what direction to go with his time and money.

What color should I paint my TJ?

[rondak46]

I hate plumbing, especially on my Jeep. That is why I choose not to run an automatic transmission. I can understand OX guys being averse to installing, and relying on, plumbing. That said. Do not be afraid, the chit works.

The other bruise I see on the OX solution, is the way they handled themselves, historically, when customers had problems (known to me only through my web-wheeling).

ARB has handled themselves very well when I needed them (aside from price... ouch) for fit kits for their bumber and rockers.

These are the only marks I really see against OX, as long as you axcept their basic design, including the necessary diff cover and the exposure it affords.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by mdm

Careful now:
http://www.shopwiki.com/l/ARB-Air-Locker-Repair-Kit=out&utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=Google&utm _campaign=Default

I don't see any backup products there that are designed to manually lock the ARB air locker. I only see a repair kit for the air line, reinforced air lines which ARB specifically recommends against using in their FAQ, ARB lockers, and compressors.

[clintrivera]

Originally Posted by mdm

Careful now:
http://www.shopwiki.com/l/ARB-Air-Lo...mpaign=Default


There are so many of these debates it gets laughable.

Manual vs. auto
Hard top vs. soft top
D44 vs. 8.8
AT vs. MT
4.56 vs. 4.88 vs. 5.13
OX vs. ARB

So much of what comes out in these debates is internet BS with supporters on each side spewing forth with worthless drivel. Each side will regurgitate their favorite arguments while equally forcefully degrading the other side. Unfortunately the good points that each side make are too often lost in the BS. I feel for the poor guy that is trying to figure out what direction to go with his time and money.

What color should I paint my TJ?

Exactly. You can repair an ARB line on the trail, unlike an OX cable. With ox, if the cable fails you get to get out of the rig each time you want to lock and unlock the thing. With ARB, you fix the line and motor on.

Most of those arguments you reference are based on opinion or personal preference. The ARB vs OX debate can be fought with empirical data - IE: sales numbers and use in competition.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by Robert J. yates

Now I know you are being disengenuous... equating the reliability of a D30 or D35 under certain use conditions (to an ARB) is quite a reach.... nice try

No, no, I honestly was saying I currently have that setup and for me to complain about ARB reliability might seem silly considering I'm currently on those axles.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

You keep missing the point... they don't need it. If they were unreliable enough to where that was needed, a product to take care of that non-existant need would be out. You can bet if a need was there, all kinds of aftermarket ARB back-up systems would be selling like hotcakes.

Only Ox feels the need for a back-up mechanical lock for when their cable mechanism fails.

Now THAT is a pretty fair stance. I can't argue that opinion or the logic behind it because it's solid.

I just don't think that those lines are quite so bomb proof, perhaps I'm of the minority and perhaps overly concerned. If so, then so be it, I'd be one who'd love to see a manual engagement. My tacoma factory TRD locker never had an electric solenoid problem but I sure liked knowing I could flip the switch inside with a screw driver if I needed. I suppose I like that kind of reassurance when it's easily had. The comparison of carrying around a spare tranny someone made earlier isn't so easily had, though people don't think much of carrying around D35 axles on this forum. I don't laugh at those who do.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by Anticanman

Without jumping too hard into this debate, I'd like to reiterate a point. If air lines were so vulnerable, why does OX offer an air actuated package? I think this thread has been entertaining as well as informative. If I were to buy one it would be the reasoning I listed on the first page of this longwinded arguement that has yielded nothing but facts that are proven by both sides for both sides.

And without getting banned (fingers crossed) with the number of moderators chiming in, why hasn't this been moved to the engines and drivetrain section?

Does OX think they're so vulnerable? I don't know their opinion.

If you'd like me to guess about why they offered it, I would have to say that first of all they think they're a good choice and secondly that they hoped to hit some ARB market share by using the same engagement system. I don't care what they think either way, I don't think air pressure engagement is as foolproof as I'd like it to be, that's all. I don't think it's a huge risk either but it is SOME risk, I'd like it to be none with a manual switch.

As for moving the thread, this is pretty appropriate for the tech section IMO. If this thread was moved I could quickly pull more than 50 other threads that would need to be moved too. 8.8 debates and gearing debates.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by clintrivera

Exactly. You can repair an ARB line on the trail, unlike an OX cable. With ox, if the cable fails you get to get out of the rig each time you want to lock and unlock the thing. With ARB, you fix the line and motor on.

Most of those arguments you reference are based on opinion or personal preference. The ARB vs OX debate can be fought with empirical data - IE: sales numbers and use in competition.

Sure, no argument there. You could even carry some slip connections so that fixing a snapped line can be done in 10 seconds, cut the line clean on both sides, slip both ends into the connector and continue.

Though you're assuming it was a break at the fitting or a regulator/compressor failure etc. Though, as we know....probably unlikely.

Now in the chance you CAN'T repair the ARB setup because there was a lack of line or you don't have proper stuff with you (your own fault then) or a fitting etc. failed at least had you used an OX you could lock up even if it meant getting in and out.

Pros and cons to both perhaps. I don't see a big issue with OX personally and I don't see a big issue with ARB either.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by clintrivera

...Most of those arguments you reference are based on opinion or personal preference. The ARB vs OX debate can be fought with empirical data - IE: sales numbers and use in competition.

You are right that much of what I mentioned is argued with opinion or personal preference. The problem is that most debates, to include this current one, are argued in the same way. Slim in facts, heavy in personal preference. The facts that get tossed in will too often get lost in the BS.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by rondak46

I hate plumbing, especially on my Jeep. That is why I choose not to run an automatic transmission. I can understand OX guys being averse to installing, and relying on, plumbing. That said. Do not be afraid, the chit works.

The other bruise I see on the OX solution, is the way they handled themselves, historically, when customers had problems (known to me only through my web-wheeling).

ARB has handled themselves very well when I needed them (aside from price... ouch) for fit kits for their bumber and rockers.

These are the only marks I really see against OX, as long as you axcept their basic design, including the necessary diff cover and the exposure it affords.

I'd agree with all of that and I'd add that OX's location of the cable is rather poor too, possibly as big of an issue or even bigger than a failure in air to ARB. Though the guard made can mostly fix this I still think it's a poor choice even so to have put it out the side like that.