[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by clintrivera

I did read it. I've read every post in the thread. You are wrong.

People running rigs with ARB's use them BECAUSE of their reliability and longevity, not in spite.


The vastly outsell OX. They are preferred in competition.

Maybe run 0W-15 oil because it's faster with less drag, you gonna take that car through the desert and risk your life with that setup when it should be 10w-30?

I'm not "wrong", I'm not saying ARB is a good or bad thing. Personally I like em and I've used them with great success and little problems though I've seen some problems. The entire point is because something is good in a competition situation doesn't make it good for everyday use out in nowhere land.

Fact is in competition if anything goes wrong, someone is there to help 2 min away, in the real world help could be days away on foot. Again ARB is a fairly reliable product and if you take care to install it well and take care not to drag stupid stuff like branches under your jeep it'll probably work without fail.

As for teams using it because its reliable...uhmm no, they use it because it WORKS on demand most everytime and it's reliable in a controlled situation. If I was to compete I'd use ARB too but if I was told I had to take my rig into A deep forrest and my life would depend on my jeep for 6 months straight for survival I would not even consider running ARB over Detroit...and possibly over OX. In a competition the compressor is always in tip top shape, the lines are checked frequently and can be easily fixed, everything is controlled.

Let's not be thickheaded and say that because something wins a competition that it's great for daily use and nothing better exists for daily use?

[WJ04]

Originally Posted by clintrivera

People drop $1000 on a locker because it's fashionable? You can't be serious. If you are going to start making things up, at least make it somewhat believable.

I don't think that's the complete reason at all just something that adds to it. When you see jeepers talking about there rigs on the trails if a rig has ARB's there's always someone that says ooh that jeep is sweet it's got ARB's front and rear. And the owner knew he would get that reaction, cause lets face it we as jeeper love the complements so we like to have great parts as well as the prestige that comes with them. I also have a lockright in my d60 rear and I think it's an awesome locker gets the job done and has never failed me, but you don't hear anyone say ooh sweet jeep it's got a lockright in the rear.

[biffgnar]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

Fact is in competition if anything goes wrong, someone is there to help 2 min away, in the real world help could be days away on foot.

I'm staying out of this argument generally, but as to this point the numbers Jerry was quoting were from KOH which is a non-chase race. Help is definitely not 2 minutes away.

[Wheelin98TJ]

Originally Posted by WJ04

Yeah in that way it would be the better CHOICE for the racer, doesn't make it the better locker in general. Remove the racer and put someone who doesn't care about speed of engagement and now they become equal. The argument of why the racers all use ARB was mentioned, I think its that quick engagement that makes racers choose ARB.

I don't think competitors are choosing ARB because its quicker.

[clintrivera]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

I'm not "wrong", I'm not saying ARB is a good or bad thing. Personally I like em and I've used them with great success and little problems though I've seen some problems. The entire point is because something is good in a competition situation doesn't make it good for everyday use out in nowhere land.

Fact is in competition if anything goes wrong, someone is there to help 2 min away, in the real world help could be days away on foot. Again ARB is a fairly reliable product and if you take care to install it well and take care not to drag stupid stuff like branches under your jeep it'll probably work without fail.

As for teams using it because its reliable...uhmm no, they use it because it WORKS on demand most everytime and it's reliable in a controlled situation. If I was to compete I'd use ARB too but if I was told I had to take my rig into A deep forrest and my life would depend on my jeep for 6 months straight for survival I would not even consider running ARB over Detroit...and possibly over OX. In a competition the compressor is always in tip top shape, the lines are checked frequently and can be easily fixed, everything is controlled.

Let's not be thickheaded and say that because something wins a competition that it's great for daily use and nothing better exists for daily use?

You are still wrong. If ARB's had a high failure rate or were not as reliable as locker "B" then that would cause that competitor to lose.

Let me make this simple.

For a competitor to win a competition in which ARB's are used - the lockers have to work the entire duration of the race. Everytime. On demand. Most racers depend on seconds or fractions of a second. Not really enough time to tear into an axle and fix a failed locker.

It's hard to win a race you can't finish.

I'm not saying everything from competition translates into something that can be used everyday.

Ford Raptor with an ARB locker won first in class in the Dakar Rally. 6,000 miles of pure punishment. I'm pretty sure reliability is paramount with that race. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01...-in-class.html

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by biffgnar

I'm staying out of this argument generally, but as to this point the numbers Jerry was quoting were from KOH which is a non-chase race. Help is definitely not 2 minutes away.

Even non-chase, I'm from Alaska.......

You can imagine I've been a long way from help before. I know most the guys I'm disagreeing with have first hand knowledge and are pretty reasonable usually. I take reliability seriously because my camping expeditions and trail experience usually involves getting a long way from people so for me an airline and a locker that unlocks without a supply is a bad thing. Against... I still very much like ARB product.

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by clintrivera

You are still wrong. If ARB's had a high failure rate or were not as reliable as locker "B" then that would cause that competitor to lose.

Let me make this simple.

For a competitor to win a competition in which ARB's are used - the lockers have to work the entire duration of the race. Everytime. On demand. Most racers depend on seconds or fractions of a second. Not really enough time to tear into an axle and fix a failed locker.

It's hard to win a race you can't finish.

I'm not saying everything from competition translates into something that can be used everyday.

Ford Raptor with an ARB locker won first in class in the Dakar Rally. 6,000 miles of pure punishment. I'm pretty sure reliability is paramount with that race. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01...-in-class.html

I agree with all of this EXCEPT I'm not racing, I'm just trying to get to somewhere and then make it home.

[Wheelin98TJ]

Originally Posted by WJ04

I don't think that's the complete reason at all just something that adds to it. When you see jeepers talking about there rigs on the trails if a rig has ARB's there's always someone that says ooh that jeep is sweet it's got ARB's front and rear. And the owner knew he would get that reaction, cause lets face it we as jeeper love the complements so we like to have great parts as well as the prestige that comes with them. I also have a lockright in my d60 rear and I think it's an awesome locker gets the job done and has never failed me, but you don't hear anyone say ooh sweet jeep it's got a lockright in the rear.

Do you know why do people ooohh and aaahh over ARB lockers?

It probably has a lot to do with the quality and reliability of their lockers.

[clintrivera]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

I agree with all of this EXCEPT I'm not racing, I'm just trying to get to somewhere and then make it home.

I imagine anything that can withstand 6000 miles of full throttle punishment non stop can probably get you home. You think?

[WJ04]

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

Do you know why do people ooohh and aaahh over ARB lockers?

It probably has a lot to do with the quality and reliability of their lockers.

I agree, I think arbs are great i'v even ooh aah'd some myself but Im just saying there is a cool facter as well.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

I agree with all of this EXCEPT I'm not racing, I'm just trying to get to somewhere and then make it home.

Huh? Really? You realy don't understand the concept that if something can make it through tough racing and competition conditions that it would also certainly be able to get you home?

[hustler905]

Ummm, if an ARB (or any other) locker dies, you won't necessarily die. One would think you would have to do a little more winching but there would hardly be vultures circling.

I can't imagine a trail for any long distance, even in Alaska, where you would need a locker the ENTIRE way. Am I the only one that locks up for an obstacle, then runs the rest of the day open?

[Robert J. yates]

Originally Posted by 05TurboS2K

Maybe run 0W-15 oil because it's faster with less drag, you gonna take that car through the desert and risk your life with that setup when it should be 10w-30?

I'm not "wrong", I'm not saying ARB is a good or bad thing. Personally I like em and I've used them with great success and little problems though I've seen some problems. The entire point is because something is good in a competition situation doesn't make it good for everyday use out in nowhere land.

Fact is in competition if anything goes wrong, someone is there to help 2 min away, in the real world help could be days away on foot. Again ARB is a fairly reliable product and if you take care to install it well and take care not to drag stupid stuff like branches under your jeep it'll probably work without fail.

As for teams using it because its reliable...uhmm no, they use it because it WORKS on demand most everytime and it's reliable in a controlled situation. If I was to compete I'd use ARB too but if I was told I had to take my rig into A deep forrest and my life would depend on my jeep for 6 months straight for survival I would not even consider running ARB over Detroit...and possibly over OX. In a competition the compressor is always in tip top shape, the lines are checked frequently and can be easily fixed, everything is controlled.

Let's not be thickheaded and say that because something wins a competition that it's great for daily use and nothing better exists for daily use?

You realize that ARB's are designed and manufactured in Australia right? Folks have to survive for hundreds if not thousands of miles in the bush crossing parts of that country. The ARB is routinely tested in THAT environment by recreationalists as well as competitors. Is it more complicated than a Detroit? Sure but then as an example, I dumped the Detroit that in my D30 for an ARB because it kept trying to eat itself which is not uncommon in the least as they have a known issue. Seriously, search for D30 Detroit failures and learn up.

[Jerry Bransford]

I wasn't aware the Detroit Locker has an issue when installed in a Dana 30. What happens to them Robert?

[05TurboS2K]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

Huh? Really? You realy don't understand the concept that if something can make it through tough racing and competition conditions that it would also certainly be able to get you home?

I first hand understand racing because I competed off-road on a national level in multiple forms of racing.

I also understand being stuck somewhere because when I was 18 I ended up in Monroe, WA a day and a half walk deep because a buddies motor went out on his CJ. In hindsight we shouldn't have been out alone that far and not without a radio but I was 18 and thought he at age 26 was smart enough to have that somewhere in the rig etc.

In racing short distance or long I know that someone will be on the trail to come and get me if things break. At the end of a race people are accounted for even at a long race.

Here's the concept you're missing Jerry, in racing we often give up longevity for short term performance. So when you ask about it being tough enough for race conditions but not tough enough to get it home, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Racing conditions are only tough in certain manners.

Here's a perfect example:

O ring Chain #525
Race Chain #520

The O ring chain is a better bet if you're going to have to run one for an extended period of time, also the larger size will last you longer, stretching less. The O-ring will keep out mud/debris and allow the chain to last longer until the rubber decays a bit, stretches and becomes useless, though this takes days and days of riding to do.

The Race chain, though it will endure incredibly punishment as I beat it for a day is going to be replaced, it lacks an o-ring and won't seal out mud from the rollers so it'll wear out far more quickly.

Now some amateur rider might say "If Greg runs a DID 520 in his races then it's good enough for me to risk my life in the woods on". He'd be a fool.

I usually find Jeep forum to be able to understand concepts like this easily.... I'm becoming surprised. I don't know if it's just pure stubbornness or a matter of looking at things differently. The point I was making was purely about dependability and on board air is far from that, the less moving parts and the less electric parts the better in my book when it comes to these things.