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Unread 12-23-2010, 10:44 AM   #136
koolaid5
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jesus H!!!! this is a long thread with no solution in the end. I am looking at a '99 XJ with this issue. I want to figure out the cheapest way to "fix" this, so that I can hand the guy cash to buy it and fix it in place to drive it home. Come on big brains.... figure this out already.

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Unread 12-23-2010, 11:54 AM   #137
scs2016
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SKIM is made not to be easily defeated.

You could look for a used XJ PCM and just take out the SKIM and replace the PCM with a no-SKIM PCM.

Depends on the price / value of the deal i guess...

I think the FSM has material about diagnosing and replacing a bad SKIM, so that approach might work but you'd need a DRB tool.
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Unread 12-23-2010, 11:57 AM   #138
koolaid5
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I can get the '99 XJ with 120k miles and no other issues for $1000. Seems like a good deal to me even if I have to throw $200-$300 at this issue.
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Unread 02-01-2011, 09:28 PM   #139
Mitsuru
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Details for you on skim reset/disable

Ok please forgive me but I'm not a jeep owner!
However, after reading this thread after a google search I emailed a few companies as I have a Chrysler/Dodge Neon.

This is going to make it easier if skim can be removed no need for megasquirt

Below are emails to a US company who can do it!

Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 01:37 AM
To: scottwest@autocomputerperformance.com
Subject: Question on Engine swap with 1998 voyager ecu

Hello
I would like your advise on what to do with my current project would be of help.

The car I'm using is a 1998 Chrysler/Dodge Neon mk 1/1st gen,
4 cylinder SOHC 2.0L engine with 31th 3 speed automatic transmission.

The doner vehicle is a Chrysler Voyager(dodge Minivan)
with a 3,3L V6 engine and a 4 speed electronicly controlled 41te
automatic transmission.

I have been told (can't remember where)
That the engine management box of the Voyager can't be used
on another vehicle because the sentry/skim system.

Yet I need to change the ECU to control the new V6 engine,
and to communicate with the Automatic transmission's control modual.

Is there a way to bypass and remove this option and it's extra wiring etc when a ecu is sent to you?

If so approximately how long would it take and what would the cost be?

I look forward to hearing from you soon , and thanks in advance for your reply
Aron
(I'm in the UK)


On 01/02/2011 20:15, scottwest@autocomputerperformance.com wrote:
Aron,
You will need to re-use the ECM, TCM and engine harness from the Voyager. Send us the ECM and

we will remove the factory security. You will need to remove the SKIM module from the steering column of the Neon. After that everything should work together. We will remove the security for $100 USD plus the return shipping. Be sure to include your name and email address with your ECM so we can arrange payment.
My head technician is intrigued by your project. He says the Neon should fly with that 3.3L. Perhaps you could send us some pictures once you get it running?
Good luck!
Michael
ACE - (888) 664-8787


Hello Micheal
Thanks for your response.
I had a thought and thought I'd better ask now before the ecu was sent.
As the Voyager/minivan's ecu is on a ccd bus system with the transmissions
control unit so it can get the sensor detail.s form the ecu to change gear.
Would the TCU have the skim details in it to? if so wouyld that need to be sent?

Please forgive the names I use but they do have different names on this side of the pond!

As for the Ecu/ecm of the car I'm retro fitting with the voyager engine and transmission,
as it is one of the 1st generation neons it never came with skim when exported to the UK.

There are 2 links below which might have your intrest.

This gentleman is using a 1929 Willys Whippet with a Dodge Neon SRT-4 engine in the back
(USA owner)
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=372253

And this is also a Voyager/Minivan in a neon but with a manual transmission (USA owner)
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=362166

I am a member of neons.org and my user name is 'Mitsuru' just so you know.
Also they are a few (very few and far between) people who state that they can do what you
do for imobilizers, but when I said it was a chrysler they wouldn't give me the time of day!
I'm a member of the http://www.yorksyanks.co.uk (a Yorkshire American Car Club)
So your details will be passed to both forums.

After a little research the Neon v6's that have been done, none were right hand drive.
so will mine be the 1st !
So enjoy the fun lol, speak soon.

Aron 'Mitsuru' Bacon


After I went through your posts which has shown a solution I thought it would only be polite to share the information I have received as a result of your posts
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Unread 02-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #140
Mitsuru
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reply from Michael

Aron,
Chrysler products are no problem for us. In fact they are about 2/3 of our business right now. To answer your question, the TCU does not store any SKIM info, so you do not need to send it. If your Neon has no SKIM all the better. Less work for you. In fact, you may want to check that the Voyager has SKIM (some did, some didn't). In the US models you can tell by the key. Grey grips had security, black grips did not. If it dosen't have it then you should be fine. If it does then send it in like we discussed.
We hope this helps. Best of luck.
Michael
ACE
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Unread 02-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #141
Mitsuru
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SKIM/Immobilizer disabling and removal,
this subject has been discussed but I could not find a sticky for this subject!

From what I understand from posts on this forum and others.

If a new uncoded (or specifically flashed Engine Control Unit/Module) is fitted it will see that there is a security code from the immobilizer/security module or from the wiring to the receiver from around the ignition barrel and say 'Oh we have security protocols what's the code?'

If you change the keys, instrument cluster, ECU/PCM or immobilizer module, or skim ariel you will have to reprogram everything. The gauge cluster, pcm, and skim module (key box&key) must all agree and have all the same vin programmed into them. if you had all three, the skim would never even know it's been moved! If you have the key, module and pcm, they can and will program the gauge.

But if you have access to a drbIII you can reprogram the VIN with the computer in the car if you wanted to!
The Key fob has nothing to do with the skim. the chip is in the key. Once the 'sentry' feature is activated on a ECU/PCM, it can not be 'de-activated', but it can be changed or made blank ready for a new car.

However if a car has had the immobilizer and the sentry system removed including the SKIM ariel around the barrel, and an uncoded ECU/PCM is fitted it will work without the need of a skim and the immobilizer or the need to be programmed regardless of staged or stock cluster, the TCU does not store any SKIM info, so you do not need to send it to be flashed or replaced

This is what a SKIM ariel module basically looks like (Borrowed from a Jeep forum):


The sentry key only needs to be seen when the car is initially started, after that, it doesn't care where it is. You could actually use a cheap key and start the car with the sentry key next to it. once its started you can put the sentry key away and car will run fine. So alternatively if you wanted to fit a remote start kit you could remove the chip from the key affix it near the ariel and put the ariel under the dashboard if you didn't want to flash the ECU/PCM and remove the immobilizer.

The Quote below is on the neons.org forum but took some finding to quote "NOS2006"
Quote:
Not sure exactly how much significance this has on us Neon owners, but I think it's a pretty interesting find...

http://www.obd2.com/support/reprog/d...im_initial.pdf

Cliff notes: it basically tells why you have to program a PCM with a SKIM and gives a phone number where you can supposedly call and rent a DRBIII.



EDIT: Here's another page I just found. Not Chrysler-sourced, but page 2 is pretty informative:

http://www.ae-diagnosticsolutions.co...ember_2009.pdf
.
An email from;
http://autocomputerperformance.com

Has stated
Quote:
We will remove the security for $100 USD plus the return shipping. Be sure to include your name and email address with your ECU/PCM/ECM so we can arrange payment.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 02:01 PM   #142
jclaudii
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Okay, I'm going to dig a bit deeper here. Why can we not capture the "key ok" or "key not ok" packet/signal that is sent across the CANBUS and put it in a cheap eprom that basically just spits out the "key ok" status signal whenever the key is turned to the on and start positions. I would still want the chip to output "key not okay" status so one could use it as a immobilization for when they park etc via a hidden switch or other method!

Using some methods like those below this should be easily done with someone who has a way to read what the bus is doing!
http://www.vassfamily.net/ToyotaPrius/CAN/cindex.html
http://www.can232.com/projects.htm
http://www.microchip.com/forums/m325688-print.aspx

Basically just search for "CAN sniffing" and you'll be able to get what we need to do. Capture the packet sequence that is being sent across the wires from the SKIM to the bus and put our own "copy cat" device in it's place and we should be ready to go!

I'm guessing we'll also have to capture a packet that identifies the SKIM module itself so the PCM still thinks there is one connected, but that all should be broadcasted on key turn.
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Unread 03-05-2011, 07:04 PM   #143
sank
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@jclaudii

I've thought of that many times, and I even have some knowledge to do that, but no time! I've moved my SKIM module away from the steering column already, as Mitsuru has suggested might work. It does work.

I've decided that my personal problem must be a bad ground, generally. I can't keep my SKIM working; sometimes it dies on the road and I have to pull the kick plate and fiddle with some grounding wires, and start it about a dozen times until I finally convince it my skim module is working. I finally gave up and am running with skim unconnected, in whatever undocumented 'limp' mode I have.
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Unread 06-15-2011, 12:52 AM   #144
Jaune
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Guys,

My battery hit the ecm in an accident. The board is damage and I need to Replace the ecm (2002 tj 2.5l). I heard about the skim before so i wasn't to sure about getting on from a junkyard. Anyways can i get an ecm from an older model without problem? Does the p/n really have to match?

Thx.
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Unread 07-31-2011, 03:06 PM   #145
DDIRI
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hey all I have found a solution to this SKIM delete I am not a jeep guy but I am a chrysler guy and I do have a Skim equipped hemi I swapped into my 97 Ram http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-...7-360-a-2.html . After a lot of searching and trying to find away to work around this problem I found these guys that can go in and delete the SKIM program from your ECM http://autocomputerperformance.com/ good luck to anyone with this problem. I hope this helps
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Unread 08-26-2011, 04:29 PM   #146
BK2000TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neZZr View Post
Seems like it's not worth it to me. If it helps stop theft, leave it. You learned your lesson & got ripped by your dealer once... now you know you can get them cheaper and you can program it yourself... and you'll probably be more careful about losing your key now.


Just because you can buy a skim key on ebay for $10 doesn't mean that's what the dealer pays. The factory key (the one that says "Jeep" on it) has a list price of $50 from Chrysler. The dealer pays quite a bit more than $10 for that key. Some dealers also carry aftermarket sentry keys, but I can tell you that we pay more than $10 from our distributors for those as well.
I paid the $110+ for my key and it didn't even have Jeep on it. Just a plain grey key.
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Unread 08-26-2011, 04:42 PM   #147
scs2016
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I just paid ~$20 for one from Quadratec. Strattec keys are even cheaper $12-17 elsewhere online.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 10:27 AM   #148
gamble
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So what does everyone think about this http://autocomputerperformance.com place that can bypass it for $100?
I'll take donations and try it out.
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Unread 12-14-2011, 06:41 AM   #149
WKdeuce
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Edit: I talked to a dealer, had them run my VIN, I don't even have sentry key, so disregard this...

After 5 years with an XJ, I bought a $900 TJ.
Well it was flooded or stolen or a meth lab or God knows what, but it's in my driveway and titled in my name now.
After cranking it over with the plugs out just in case it was a submarine, I'm starting to think I'm having sentry key issues.
I don't have a sentry key, I have an old early 90s chrylser key.

I got this:


not this:


From what I'm reading here, there's nothing I can do short of getting a new computer.
BUT, from what I'm reading, the dealer can't even program it without a sentry key to start with, so... am I s.o.l.?

Thanks guys.
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Unread 12-14-2011, 10:39 AM   #150
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Your wrong the dealer can make you a new sentry with or without a key
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