Difference between early and latter model TJ brake shoes - JeepForum.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
Difference between early and latter model TJ brake shoes

Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769

eduardostewart is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 08:55 AM
wwch99tj
Registered User
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Felton
Posts: 3,476
Maybe post links to what you're talking about

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using JeepForum
wwch99tj is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
eduardostewart is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 09:08 AM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 29,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardostewart View Post
Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769
Look at the application notes on the various brands.

Raybestos lists the 769 as fitting 90-06 and the 538 as fitting 90-00.

Other companies list them as fitting 90-06.

I do know there was a friction change in 00 where they removed a strip of lining down the middle but I never see that in the aftermarket. Maybe they just reduced the friction effectiveness on the later stuff.

I do know I've had a few brake companies call me and ask if I know why Jeep did what they did and I have no good answer that I can prove.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
i've noticed that between the different companies with listing the model years. rockauto makes it seem like the 769s will retro fit if need be

(not sure what year D35 i have on my hands at the moment and no BOM, i'm assuming 2003 but can't verify)
eduardostewart is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
i also verified that the drum will fit all years so supposedly there's just a subtle difference in the shoes
eduardostewart is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
blaine, any idea why the brake bar is only good up to 2002?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...Term=brake+bar
eduardostewart is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 02:39 PM
goodwrenchdave
Registered User
2008 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: near Montreal
Posts: 738
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
goodwrenchdave is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 03:11 PM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 29,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave View Post
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
The groove was about 3/4" wide and taken right out of the center of both pads. My assumption has always been to reduce the effectiveness of the rear brakes so they wouldn't have to re-do the prop valve which stayed the same from 97-04 even after they did disc brake rear axles.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
eduardostewart
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 324
i love the endless knowledge in the jeep community!
eduardostewart is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 04:56 PM
Dave02TJ
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave View Post
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
I thought the groove was to make it a pain in the *** for a mechanic to remove the drum after the owner neglects the brakes for many years and the adjusters seize.
Dave02TJ is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 08:01 PM
BradMB2004
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 635
Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.

Brad
2004 Wrangler X
2001 Grand Cherokee Ltd.
1997 Grand Cherokee Ltd.
BradMB2004 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 01-30-2014, 08:25 PM
nmtj
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 259
Very informative thread. I replaced the shoes last week and I was wondering why the new centric's didn't have a groove like orginal shoes.
nmtj is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 01-31-2014, 08:01 AM
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley
Posts: 29,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradMB2004 View Post
Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.
Can you verify that somehow? I only have one offering available to me for rear brake shoes from Centric and if it's not correct, I need to find out why and how to fix it. To date we've had no complaints about the shoes not working and being difficult to install, nor have any been returned because they don't fit or line up.

I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
Knowledge does not equal understanding.
mrblaine is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome