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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:18 AM   #1
eduardostewart
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Difference between early and latter model TJ brake shoes

Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769

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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:55 AM   #2
wwch99tj
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Maybe post links to what you're talking about

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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:58 AM   #3
eduardostewart
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538
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magno...rtNumber=538PG

769
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magno...rtNumber=769PG
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:08 AM   #4
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardostewart View Post
Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769
Look at the application notes on the various brands.

Raybestos lists the 769 as fitting 90-06 and the 538 as fitting 90-00.

Other companies list them as fitting 90-06.

I do know there was a friction change in 00 where they removed a strip of lining down the middle but I never see that in the aftermarket. Maybe they just reduced the friction effectiveness on the later stuff.

I do know I've had a few brake companies call me and ask if I know why Jeep did what they did and I have no good answer that I can prove.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:11 AM   #5
eduardostewart
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i've noticed that between the different companies with listing the model years. rockauto makes it seem like the 769s will retro fit if need be

(not sure what year D35 i have on my hands at the moment and no BOM, i'm assuming 2003 but can't verify)
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:14 AM   #6
eduardostewart
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i also verified that the drum will fit all years so supposedly there's just a subtle difference in the shoes
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:49 AM   #7
eduardostewart
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blaine, any idea why the brake bar is only good up to 2002?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...Term=brake+bar
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:39 PM   #8
goodwrenchdave
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The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
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Unread 01-30-2014, 03:11 PM   #9
mrblaine
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Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave View Post
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
The groove was about 3/4" wide and taken right out of the center of both pads. My assumption has always been to reduce the effectiveness of the rear brakes so they wouldn't have to re-do the prop valve which stayed the same from 97-04 even after they did disc brake rear axles.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 04:08 PM   #10
eduardostewart
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i love the endless knowledge in the jeep community!
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Unread 01-30-2014, 04:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave View Post
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one
I thought the groove was to make it a pain in the *** for a mechanic to remove the drum after the owner neglects the brakes for many years and the adjusters seize.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:01 PM   #12
BradMB2004
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Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:25 PM   #13
nmtj
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Very informative thread. I replaced the shoes last week and I was wondering why the new centric's didn't have a groove like orginal shoes.
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Unread 01-31-2014, 08:01 AM   #14
mrblaine
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Originally Posted by BradMB2004 View Post
Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.
Can you verify that somehow? I only have one offering available to me for rear brake shoes from Centric and if it's not correct, I need to find out why and how to fix it. To date we've had no complaints about the shoes not working and being difficult to install, nor have any been returned because they don't fit or line up.
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