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-   -   Difference between early and latter model TJ brake shoes (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/difference-between-early-latter-model-tj-brake-shoes-2054161/)

eduardostewart 01-30-2014 09:18 AM

Difference between early and latter model TJ brake shoes
 
Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769

wwch99tj 01-30-2014 09:55 AM

Maybe post links to what you're talking about

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eduardostewart 01-30-2014 09:58 AM

538
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magno...rtNumber=538PG

769
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magno...rtNumber=769PG

mrblaine 01-30-2014 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduardostewart (Post 19895009)
Anyone know what the difference is between the shoes? sizes seem the same. The only thing i can see is the placement of the "pad" more towards the top of the shoes in the latter model part number.

part numbers:
early model: 538
latter model: 769

Look at the application notes on the various brands.

Raybestos lists the 769 as fitting 90-06 and the 538 as fitting 90-00.

Other companies list them as fitting 90-06.

I do know there was a friction change in 00 where they removed a strip of lining down the middle but I never see that in the aftermarket. Maybe they just reduced the friction effectiveness on the later stuff.

I do know I've had a few brake companies call me and ask if I know why Jeep did what they did and I have no good answer that I can prove.

eduardostewart 01-30-2014 10:11 AM

i've noticed that between the different companies with listing the model years. rockauto makes it seem like the 769s will retro fit if need be

(not sure what year D35 i have on my hands at the moment and no BOM, i'm assuming 2003 but can't verify)

eduardostewart 01-30-2014 10:14 AM

i also verified that the drum will fit all years so supposedly there's just a subtle difference in the shoes

eduardostewart 01-30-2014 10:49 AM

blaine, any idea why the brake bar is only good up to 2002?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...Term=brake+bar

goodwrenchdave 01-30-2014 03:39 PM

The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one:confused:

mrblaine 01-30-2014 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave (Post 19905793)
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one:confused:

The groove was about 3/4" wide and taken right out of the center of both pads. My assumption has always been to reduce the effectiveness of the rear brakes so they wouldn't have to re-do the prop valve which stayed the same from 97-04 even after they did disc brake rear axles.

eduardostewart 01-30-2014 05:08 PM

i love the endless knowledge in the jeep community!

Dave02TJ 01-30-2014 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodwrenchdave (Post 19905793)
The obvious difference between both of those is one is bonded and the other riveted. Bonded usually run cooler (as they transfer heat better) and therefore wont fade as easy, riveted usually run quieter.
The other obvious difference is the primary shoe lining being shifted...usually because of drum locking problems on application (and occasionally uneven wear).
as to the grove in the lining??? can only guess: Many years ago the brake material would "gas" as heated and cause brake fade...I assumed the newer materials didn't but we still see many high perf pads being groved- better cooling? same principle as crossdrilled /slotted rotors ....so why not shoes....or maybe it's for better wet performance....or dust noise....pick one:confused:

I thought the groove was to make it a pain in the *** for a mechanic to remove the drum after the owner neglects the brakes for many years and the adjusters seize.

BradMB2004 01-30-2014 09:01 PM

Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.

nmtj 01-30-2014 09:25 PM

Very informative thread. I replaced the shoes last week and I was wondering why the new centric's didn't have a groove like orginal shoes.

mrblaine 01-31-2014 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradMB2004 (Post 19916225)
Drums are the same, shoes have same braking surface dimensions, but all the holes on the shoes for the springs, pins, etc ARE different.

Can you verify that somehow? I only have one offering available to me for rear brake shoes from Centric and if it's not correct, I need to find out why and how to fix it. To date we've had no complaints about the shoes not working and being difficult to install, nor have any been returned because they don't fit or line up.


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