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Unread 08-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #106
TheSlowDown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ View Post
Who mounted the tires?

They should have noticed the problems with the wheels.
4x4 shop mounted the tires. I don't know if it's common practice, but for brand new custom made in USA wheels supposedly of high quality, is it customary to put them on a balancing machine by themselves without the tires to make sure it's okay first?

Anyway, it's not something you can easily see (in fact it is extremely difficult to tell with the naked eye). The problem ended up being on the mounting pad on some of the wheels, and the beadlock rings themselves on the others.

The lack of powdercoating on the mounting pads and on the mounted non-visible surfaces of the beadlock rings after getting the wheels back confirm that's where Trail Ready re-machined the wheels...

Lessons learned I guess. Don't trust product period, no matter the reputation or prior reviews. Like the stock market: past performance does not necessarily predict future results...

Well, maybe if you have a super-high-end small production run shop cut you some wheels with less than .005" runout. But when you get to those levels and below you have to start machining the tolerances out of the other components as well, such as the brake rotors. This would be too expensive and unnecessary for anyone other than hardcore racers with $100K+ rigs IMO.

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Unread 08-25-2011, 04:07 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post
4x4 shop mounted the tires. I don't know if it's common practice, but for brand new custom made in USA wheels supposedly of high quality, is it customary to put them on a balancing machine by themselves without the tires to make sure it's okay first?

Anyway, it's not something you can easily see (in fact it is extremely difficult to tell with the naked eye). The problem ended up being on the mounting pad on some of the wheels, and the beadlock rings themselves on the others.

The lack of powdercoating on the mounting pads and on the mounted non-visible surfaces of the beadlock rings after getting the wheels back confirm that's where Trail Ready re-machined the wheels...

Lessons learned I guess. Don't trust product period, no matter the reputation or prior reviews. Like the stock market: past performance does not necessarily predict future results...

Well, maybe if you have a super-high-end small production run shop cut you some wheels with less than .005" runout. But when you get to those levels and below you have to start machining the tolerances out of the other components as well, such as the brake rotors. This would be too expensive and unnecessary for anyone other than hardcore racers with $100K+ rigs IMO.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but if I was you I wouldn't run those wheels even after being "Fixed" by the manufaturer. I would throw a fit if I was you. If they didn't strip all of the powder coating off of them before "machining them" to make them "true" and then powder coated them again afterwards, then they cut some major corners in my opinion.

In my opinion, a reputable manufacturer would've gladly taken back the defective rims you recieved so they could troubleshoot where their QA proceedures went wrong, and they would've sent you a brand new set that they were sure was up to quality. The fact that they machined right through the powder coating on your original wheels makes it clear that they don't care about quality control... and the fact that they didn't have the wheels refinished makes it clear that they already have way to much business to care about their customers.

I will take your experience into concideration when I make my purchases, and there will be no way that I will spend my money with them, and if I have any influence on any of my friends purchases then they won't either.

Thanks for sharing, I hope you get better service and performance in the future from which ever company you choose to replace those wheels with.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 04:53 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but if I was you I wouldn't run those wheels even after being "Fixed" by the manufaturer. I would throw a fit if I was you. If they didn't strip all of the powder coating off of them before "machining them" to make them "true" and then powder coated them again afterwards, then they cut some major corners in my opinion.

In my opinion, a reputable manufacturer would've gladly taken back the defective rims you recieved so they could troubleshoot where their QA proceedures went wrong, and they would've sent you a brand new set that they were sure was up to quality. The fact that they machined right through the powder coating on your original wheels makes it clear that they don't care about quality control... and the fact that they didn't have the wheels refinished makes it clear that they already have way to much business to care about their customers.

I will take your experience into concideration when I make my purchases, and there will be no way that I will spend my money with them, and if I have any influence on any of my friends purchases then they won't either.

Thanks for sharing, I hope you get better service and performance in the future from which ever company you choose to replace those wheels with.
Thank you for your thoughts. In case it isn't already abundantly clear: STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM TRAIL READY WHEELS.

I didn't buy the run of the mill Trail Ready wheels either, I bought their top-quality $325 per wheel born beadlock wheels... and that is the small 15" diameter size. It's over $400 a wheel for some of the bigger wheels.

Maybe you will get a decent set. Unfortunately they contract out work these days and the quality control is questionable at best. Even if they discover a problem in manufacturing later, don't expect them to proactively reach out and make sure you aren't being hosed by their contractors shoddy work - they sure didn't in my case. And it wasn't an isolated incident....

When I talked to Larry at Trail Ready after admitting they were having manufacturing problems he said: "these are the 17" diameter wheels right?" I said "no: 15" diameter." Other words: most surely he had problems with some 17" diameter wheels Trail Ready had made as well...

If your set of wheels is defective like mine were, the company will probably NOT give you new wheels unless they can be "fixed," especially if you have powder coated or painted them as they ship out bare AL. In fact in there terms and conditions they very nastily state what Larry at Trail Ready e-mailed to me:

"Our warranty does not require us to reimburse all your expenses, although we may choose to cover some or all of them." Using weasel words "replacement" does not have to mean new wheels, necessarily.

http://www.trailready.com/terms.html

You know the @$$tards at Trail Ready actually wrote in e-mail directly that they would send me out new wheels. Then when I asked if they would cover my extra labor costs due to chasing the DW problem and pay for the new Powder Coating they changed their tune to "we will fix, and we have no obligation to pay for extra labor because our wheels were not manufactured correctly."

I need to write a review in the review section to solidify my experience. Great product if made correctly, terrible company to do business with. Buyer we ware.

Back on topic: again: if you have DW and have traced every last possible detail and still have DW, don't forget to have the wheels checked on at least a dynamic balance machine - without the tire on.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 05:22 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post
Thank you for your thoughts. In case it isn't already abundantly clear: STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM TRAIL READY WHEELS.

I didn't buy the run of the mill Trail Ready wheels either, I bought their top-quality $325 per wheel born beadlock wheels... and that is the small 15" diameter size. It's over $400 a wheel for some of the bigger wheels.

Maybe you will get a decent set. Unfortunately they contract out work these days and the quality control is questionable at best. Even if they discover a problem in manufacturing later, don't expect them to proactively reach out and make sure you aren't being hosed by their contractors shoddy work - they sure didn't in my case. And it wasn't an isolated incident....

When I talked to Larry at Trail Ready after admitting they were having manufacturing problems he said: "these are the 17" diameter wheels right?" I said "no: 15" diameter." Other words: most surely he had problems with some 17" diameter wheels Trail Ready had made as well...

If your set of wheels is defective like mine were, the company will probably NOT give you new wheels unless they can be "fixed," especially if you have powder coated or painted them as they ship out bare AL. In fact in there terms and conditions they very nastily state what Larry at Trail Ready e-mailed to me:

"Our warranty does not require us to reimburse all your expenses, although we may choose to cover some or all of them." Using weasel words "replacement" does not have to mean new wheels, necessarily.

http://www.trailready.com/terms.html

You know the @$$tards at Trail Ready actually wrote in e-mail directly that they would send me out new wheels. Then when I asked if they would cover my extra labor costs due to chasing the DW problem and pay for the new Powder Coating they changed their tune to "we will fix, and we have no obligation to pay for extra labor because our wheels were not manufactured correctly."

I need to write a review in the review section to solidify my experience. Great product if made correctly, terrible company to do business with. Buyer we ware.

Back on topic: again: if you have DW and have traced every last possible detail and still have DW, don't forget to have the wheels checked on at least a dynamic balance machine - without the tire on.
I don't have a dog in the bead lock fight, but I'm leaning towards these... http://www.spyderlockwheel.com/ when I do go the bead lock route. I don't have any experience with them, but reading about them and other people's experience with them they seem like a good option.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 05:52 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
I don't have a dog in the bead lock fight, but I'm leaning towards these... http://www.spyderlockwheel.com/ when I do go the bead lock route. I don't have any experience with them, but reading about them and other people's experience with them they seem like a good option.
Yes! I have seen these Spyder wheels in person. I too would go with them the next time around for a solid beadlock, in 3.5" offset but that's with 10.5" wide tires, probably wouldn't go so aggressive if going with 12.5" wide tires instead. Top quality wheels.

Kinda' heavy maybe, the bead lock part is massive, the whole structure looks bomb proof. To note though: the company had some management/re-org issues and off and on apparently stop making these wheels.

When I inquired with a vendor on this forum a few months ago about the Spyderlock wheels he replied that they were currently unavailable from the manufacturer. Seems to be back now though.

Their is a lot of functional beauty in getting a 9" wide wheel such as the Spyderlock, although the big choice is not 8" vs. 9" wide wheels, it's really 15", 16", or 17" diameter wheels.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 06:25 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post
Yes! I have seen these Spyder wheels in person. I too would go with them the next time around for a solid beadlock, in 3.5" offset but that's with 10.5" wide tires, probably wouldn't go so aggressive if going with 12.5" wide tires instead. Top quality wheels.

Kinda' heavy maybe, the bead lock part is massive, the whole structure looks bomb proof. To note though: the company had some management/re-org issues and off and on apparently stop making these wheels.

When I inquired with a vendor on this forum a few months ago about the Spyderlock wheels he replied that they were currently unavailable from the manufacturer. Seems to be back now though.

Their is a lot of functional beauty in getting a 9" wide wheel such as the Spyderlock, although the big choice is not 8" vs. 9" wide wheels, it's really 15", 16", or 17" diameter wheels.
From what I understand about bead locks, wheel ballance, and deathwobble, I wouldn't reasonably expect any set of beadlocks to work well on the highway without lots of trial and error. I wouldn't expect my wheels to need to have to be machined again to make them true like you had to do either. But allowing that the wheels were 100% true, and allowing that the tires needed less than 5 oz to be true as well, there would still be many variables. The bead lock rings could be off center by 1mm... some of the bolts could weigh a gram or 2 more than the others... if the bead lock ring was off center to one side by a few mm, and the bolts on that side were a few grams heavier than the ones on the other side, you would still have a bad imballance problem, even if the wheels themselves were 100% true.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 06:39 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
From what I understand about bead locks, wheel ballance, and deathwobble, I wouldn't reasonably expect any set of beadlocks to work well on the highway without lots of trial and error. I wouldn't expect my wheels to need to have to be machined again to make them true like you had to do either. But allowing that the wheels were 100% true, and allowing that the tires needed less than 5 oz to be true as well, there would still be many variables. The bead lock rings could be off center by 1mm... some of the bolts could weigh a gram or 2 more than the others... if the bead lock ring was off center to one side by a few mm, and the bolts on that side were a few grams heavier than the ones on the other side, you would still have a bad imballance problem, even if the wheels themselves were 100% true.
Lots of guys run born beadlocks such as Walker Evans and Spyderlocks on the road with zero issues - in many cases I'm betting with no balancing weights required to balance. There are a lot of purpose built $100K+ trophy trucks running these beadlocks at high speeds very hard... no problems on road at all... if balanced properly and all bolts tightened up.

All Trail Ready company and quality control issues & past DW aside, even with the KM2 tires mounted I need less than 2 ounces of weight to balance each wheel tire combo, now that my wheels have been re-machined.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 06:52 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post
Lots of guys run born beadlocks such as Walker Evans and Spyderlocks on the road with zero issues - in many cases I'm betting with no balancing weights required to balance. There are a lot of purpose built $100K+ trophy trucks running these beadlocks at high speeds very hard... no problems on road at all... if balanced properly and all bolts tightened up.

All Trail Ready company and quality control issues & past DW aside, even with the KM2 tires mounted I need less than 2 ounces of weight to balance each wheel tire combo, now that my wheels have been re-machined.
I'm glad you got everything sorted out I'd still be pissed that they machined right through the powder coating though, that really doesn't seem like a viable long term solution, even though it might work in the short term... What happens later on down the road when the powder coating that they used to set up their machining work wears out, and the wheels go out of ballance/round again because of it? I guess that will be far enough into the future that they will be able to claim that you're out of warranty...
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Unread 08-25-2011, 07:01 PM   #114
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Can the upper axle control arm housing bushings be replaced instead of buying a JJ conversion kit? Im still running stick control arms. I gotta replace my skyjacker adjustable track bar I bought before learning about Currie products. Lots of good shops around here but no one has great knowledge about TJs. Even a guy that has raced cars for 30 years said that a S/S will cure my DW on my TJ. I need to buy the currie trackbar/steering kit and drill out the frame/axle mount to 1/2in.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 07:18 PM   #115
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Even a guy that has raced cars for 30 years said that a S/S will cure my DW on my TJ.
There's plenty of those. Just shows that time ≠ quality experience and understanding.

I love how a solid, technical thread on DW has turned into a beadlock thread....

Take it to PM's dudes.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 07:36 PM   #116
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ok new to this forum , call me the new guy on the block (though i have done my share of wheelin i just had an aversion to computers), after reading this post, the notorious Death Wobble it seems has been beat and kicked and chewed and most still dont really understand it.

90+ % of the time what we have dubbed DW is in reality nothing more than harmonic resonance, have you ever seen the video of the bridge bouncing around? they clled it galloping gertie.see this:
if the link doesnt work guess you'll have to cut and paste. anyway

when you have a system with as many parts as a front end there are so many variables that you can not say that there is a difinutive cause. it can be caused by so many different things and combination of things that is what makes it so hard to understand, thereby trouble shooting an individual case can be very difficult. so when trouble shooting a case. you should ask what has recently changed to cause it? new wheels? new tires? lift kit? shocks?
for instance i had a case on my cj2a , d25 diff, worn tie rods, worn steering box (ross) p.o. had a s/s on it. 1 tire out of balance. at 35 mph you thought you were on a pogo stick with a steering wheel! put new shocks on it and wobble started at 30 mph, you would think i made the problem worse. WRONG! i just changed the frequency which triggered the wobble. changed tie rod ends, wobble started at about 48 mph! removed steering stabilizer and wobble stated at around 40 mph again seems like i'm going backwards, when in reallity all that was happening was the the stabilizer was "masking" the wobble. rebuilt drag link and steering box, balanced wheels and tires, guess what? wobble gone, no steering stabilizer.

Mountain Man i cant diagnose your particular problem, but I can most assuredly say that a s/s will NOT fix your problem, it may cover it up or reduce its noticability but it will not fix it.
cheers
Rick
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Unread 08-25-2011, 08:08 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Imped View Post
There's plenty of those. Just shows that time ≠ quality experience and understanding.

I love how a solid, technical thread on DW has turned into a beadlock thread....

Take it to PM's dudes.
it's funny that you ask us to read the [Word editted out by JB: Leave such barely disguised prohibited words outside of JF] thread, but we were discussing wheel imbalance that caused the poster to experience DW, and the possible causes for and potential solutions to the posters wheel imbalance... I guess it just shows that post counts isn't always equal to quality experience and understanding???
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Unread 08-25-2011, 08:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
it's funny that you ask us to read the [Word editted out by JB: Leave such barely disguised prohibited words outside of JF] thread, but we were discussing wheel imbalance that caused the poster to experience DW, and the possible causes for and potential solutions to the posters wheel imbalance... I guess it just shows that post counts isn't always equal to quality experience and understanding???
Because it's obvious I don't have a clue what's going on with the front end of a TJ. Good one.

Where did I "ask you to read the ****ing thread?" The discussion on the wheels and their relation to DW was good. The warranty claims and opinions on favorite beadlock wheels is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. No reason to get your panties in a wad and come at me with nothing but a poor comeback.
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Unread 08-25-2011, 08:20 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Nailbanger View Post
ok new to this forum , call me the new guy on the block (though i have done my share of wheelin i just had an aversion to computers), after reading this post, the notorious Death Wobble it seems has been beat and kicked and chewed and most still dont really understand it.

90+ % of the time what we have dubbed DW is in reality nothing more than harmonic resonance, have you ever seen the video of the bridge bouncing around? they clled it galloping gertie.see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw if the link doesnt work guess you'll have to cut and paste. anyway

when you have a system with as many parts as a front end there are so many variables that you can not say that there is a difinutive cause. it can be caused by so many different things and combination of things that is what makes it so hard to understand, thereby trouble shooting an individual case can be very difficult. so when trouble shooting a case. you should ask what has recently changed to cause it? new wheels? new tires? lift kit? shocks?
for instance i had a case on my cj2a , d25 diff, worn tie rods, worn steering box (ross) p.o. had a s/s on it. 1 tire out of balance. at 35 mph you thought you were on a pogo stick with a steering wheel! put new shocks on it and wobble started at 30 mph, you would think i made the problem worse. WRONG! i just changed the frequency which triggered the wobble. changed tie rod ends, wobble started at about 48 mph! removed steering stabilizer and wobble stated at around 40 mph again seems like i'm going backwards, when in reallity all that was happening was the the stabilizer was "masking" the wobble. rebuilt drag link and steering box, balanced wheels and tires, guess what? wobble gone, no steering stabilizer.

Mountain Man i cant diagnose your particular problem, but I can most assuredly say that a s/s will NOT fix your problem, it may cover it up or reduce its noticability but it will not fix it.
cheers
Rick
Welcome to Jeep Forum Mr. Nailbanger! Either you're a carpenter, or you really suck at turning wrenches! Lol It's funny that you mention harmonic resonance, because I was thinking harmonics, and someone else was thinking resonance...
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Unread 08-25-2011, 08:23 PM   #120
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Because it's obvious I don't have a clue what's going on with the front end of a TJ. Good one.

The discussion on the wheels and their relation to DW was good. The warranty claims and opinions on favorite beadlock wheels is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. No reason to get your panties in a wad and come at me with nothing but a poor comeback.
I don't have a favorite beadlock, I don't run them... I like having my panties in a wad though, because when I get DW they rub me in just the right way! Wadded panties plus DW equals Jeepgasm!
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