I've been experiencing the DW at speeds between 42 and 47 MPH. I have a 2005 rubicon with 2.25" Budget Boost, Rancho 5000 shocks, 30,000 miles, 265/75/16 tires on stock Rubicon rims. Tried the bigger stabilizer - minimal help. Finally went to a good shop today and explained the situation. They knew about it and had the solution. It cost a few bucks, but the rodeo ride is finally gone
They first re-balanced all 4 tires. A rear one was out of balance. They tried to align it, but could not meet specs. Adjustable caster bolts were required to make it work. They cost about $50 per bolt and were worth it. They adjusted it to specs and the problem in gone.
I drove home and intentionally tried to induce DW at the same spots and speeds that had plagued me for months. It was like driving a new vehicle. No DW at all.
I've been experiencing the DW at speeds between 42 and 47 MPH. I have a 2005 rubicon with 2.25" Budget Boost, Rancho 5000 shocks, 30,000 miles, 265/75/16 tires on stock Rubicon rims. Tried the bigger stabilizer - minimal help. Finally went to a good shop today and explained the situation. They knew about it and had the solution. It cost a few bucks, but the rodeo ride is finally gone
They first re-balanced all 4 tires. A rear one was out of balance. They tried to align it, but could not meet specs. Adjustable caster bolts were required to make it work. They cost about $50 per bolt and were worth it. They adjusted it to specs and the problem in gone.
I drove home and intentionally tried to induce DW at the same spots and speeds that had plagued me for months. It was like driving a new vehicle. No DW at all.
Sweet! My problem was solved by a Trac Bar. No DW issues so far. I will report back after 500 miles or so.
In a day and age that has seen cloning, and great engineering advancements, I still laugh about the fact that DW is still an issue that some of us have to deal with, and the fact that if there is a leaking oil pipe in the ocean, no one ever though of installing a cut-off valve (or maybe they did and I don't know about it).
I overheard an elderly guy talking the other day and he said that when he was young, he thought he knew everything, and the older he got, the more he realized that we don't know as much as we think we do. So true.
and the fact that if there is a leaking oil pipe in the ocean, no one ever though of installing a cut-off valve (or maybe they did and I don't know about it).
Before you continue on this path of foolishness, spend some time educating yourself and research Blow Out Preventers, where they are installed, why they are installed and how many fail safes are in place to operate them.
Folks in the oil patch refer to them as BOP's.
While you're at it, dig around and find the world record highest producing well in the world currently operating and you'll find it's a tad bit more than 100,000 barrels a day. The second highest is just slightly less and then compare to even the most conservative estimates of what the GOM well is spewing and after you put a few facts together, you might be able to hop off the BASH BP bandwagon and be somewhat objective.
Ok I have a question on this one. I have an 05 SE wrangler and I was checking out my jeep for DW. Mine has adjustable bolts on the Control arms to the axle from the factory.
Is that the bolts you are talking about?
what they likely installed were CAM BOLTS. these can be had at almost any junkyard for next to nothing, or purchased new from several manufacturers or the Jeep dealer. XJ's and ZJ's had them at the frame end, TJ's at the axle end. the bolts have a flat milled on them and the washers included are cam washers. it basically mimics having longer lower control arms...so you can get an extra ~1-1.5 degree of CASTER. they aren't for everyone, and don't in themselves fix DW.
the problem the OP had was a harmonic steering vibration. The more caster you add, the easier it gets to correct the harmonic steering vibration. well, a better way to say it would probably be more caster just moves the harmonic frequency someplace else, where you won't notice it. with the 2.25" BB, getting caster back into spec is pretty easy with cam bolts. caster with that little lift shouldn't be less than 4.5 deg or so, and factory spec is a retarded wide 6-8 degrees. So with 1.5 deg of correction, hitting more than 6 deg with a minimal lift isn't hard when your caster is already in the 7 deg range from the factory. if you've got more lift, cam bolts will only get you so much caster back...thats what adjustable control arms are for.
Also just to point out. My 05 TJ as caster adjusters on the lower arms at the axle connection points. But the uppers do not.
4 wheel parts stocks the kits for jeeps at 30 bucks.
I also see that Autozone carries them but doesn't list them as available? But I have held them in my hand before from Autozone, so I'm not sure what that is about.
I would almost assume for 70 per bolt they were Jeep brand bolts?
Still frustrated here with DW. Got the alignment, got the tires balanced, had all the bolts and everything torqued and tightened, and got a steering stabilizer. While the stabilizer did eliminate it for now, it's still happened one time since so I know it's just masking the problem. What exactly would be the benefit to getting a new track bar? This will most likely be the next step. With only a 2" spacer lift, an adjustable track bar doesn't seem to be the fix. I'm not really sure I get what replacing the stock one with another one would do...
Any thoughts?
vvvvv edit: preferably thoughts from you since you seem to have a wealth of knowledge. vvvvv
Death wobble is a symptom of many different potential problem(s) in a vehicle. One of the benefits of each of our jeeps being unique, is the fact that (like our bodies) symptoms may be caused by different problems. There is no ONE solution that fits everyone's situation.
Yes, unbalanced tires can cause a wobble/shimmy and, combined with loose suspension parts, can develop into a death wobble. Heck, leave your lug nuts loose and you'll have a death wobble simulation!
Vehicles with "perfectly" balanced tires, however, can have death wobble. Mine occurred immediately after I put on my lift, changing the alignment. Got an alignment--death wobble gone.
It's a process of elimination. Check the most obvious culprits first (alignment, balance, loose components)...then, if the problem persists, keep looking, keep adjusting, and keep asking others for advice and support.
And BP needs to hire that Danish boy who plugged the wall with his finger.
Still frustrated here with DW. Got the alignment, got the tires balanced, had all the bolts and everything torqued and tightened, and got a steering stabilizer. While the stabilizer did eliminate it for now, it's still happened one time since so I know it's just masking the problem. What exactly would be the benefit to getting a new track bar? This will most likely be the next step. With only a 2" spacer lift, an adjustable track bar doesn't seem to be the fix. I'm not really sure I get what replacing the stock one with another one would do...
Well, I was getting DW EXTREMELY bad for about the last week, and then Thursday I took it to a 4X4 shop, and the guy took a look and said allllll of my death wobble was being induced by my trac bar. He was right. I got it replaced with a Moog the same day and my death wobble is virtually gone now. Go with a new trac bar next, it'll most likely be the last step in fixing your DW. (and teh trac bar plus installation was only like $175 bucks.)
I replaced my track bar with a teraflex the first time. I would never recommend this track bar as it binds in the center (where it is adjustable). Replaced that one with an RE track bar and it was finished.
I'm trying to track down the cause of my all-out DW that began after I replaced my RC 2.2 shocks with Rancho RS9000XLs. I can lean out and watch my front wheels wobble after hitting the smallest imperfection in the road. If I don't immediately slow down it will get really violent.
2006 TJ, 22k miles, 31x10.50 Cooper STT w/ 17k miles on them (50% tread remaining)
RC 2.5" coils, Rancho RS9000XL shocks, RC rear TB bracket, Rusty's front adj track bar.
I checked the alignment via MrBlaine's method (wheels off, angle iron clamped to rotor with wheel size marked) and it was 1/16" total toe-in. Both ends of the trackbar is good condition with no slack. Same with the tie-rod ends and every nut and bolt in the front suspension and steering. All bushings look semi-fresh with no age cracking visible nor any play found by firm grip and shake method.
Since everyone says the steering stabilizer is never the cause nor cure of death wobble it was the last thing I checked. The RC 2.2 SS with 8k miles on it had 3" of free stroke without resistance. I put the factory SS back in and went for a drive and I STILL have wobble/shimmy when a bump or uneven surface is encountered but it does not progress into DW and smooths back out after a few oscillations. So technically the SS can not cause DW, but it can keep a shimmy from turning into full-on DW.
I had the front end aligned by the local alignment shop when I first put the lift on, about 10k miles ago and did not have any shimmy or DW whatsoever until I swapped shocks. I suspect that caster is the cause of my DW woes as the control arm bushings, etc have began to accumulate mileage. I got a total lift of 3.25-3.5" with the RC 2.5" kit (6cyl springs on 4cyl softtop) so my caster is likely further out than most others with the 2.5" kit.
Hopefully if I can get the caster in better shape it will allow me to wear the 31" Coopers on down and not have to replace them with half the life remaining. After all, they were balanced 500 miles ago when I switched wheels. I don't plan on spending $100 to road-force the 50% tires.
So... since funds are a bit tight at the moment I'm going to have the alignment shop rack it and give me the actual caster reading and I'll go with cam bolts ($30 4wd.com) if they'll get me back in the zone. Hopefully I won't have to buy control arms now since they're planned/budgeted for early next spring with the SYE/tummy tuck.
I'm pretty sure it was just an OEM replacement Moog, he said I didn't have enough of a lift that I needed an adjustable tracbar, but a new aftermarket one would do me well
I want to ask a question about the lower control arm bushings (axle side). I too have a shimmy I can't get rid of. Everything has been replaced or inspected except the bushings. Looking at the passenger side bushing from the front of the rig. There is a side to side play of about 1/4" or so if you place a pry bar between the bracket and the arm. Is this normal? I can't move it with my hand. When I have someone turn the wheel is short durations you can see some side to side movement of the entire suspension, but it looks to be more deflextion in the design.
Also I have a brand new track bar, and looking up at the bushing when the steering is moved you can see the bushing in the track bar moving maybe no more than an 1/8 of an inch. It's rubber, so I would assume there is going to be some movement there? Basically, If I have all new components or even a rig that is stock say with 30k miles on it, what is the amount of deflextion one would expect to see in the suspension system for side to side movement?
As a side note: I replaced all of my components at the same time. But ran into an issue where the tire shop did not dynamically balance my tires. My wife drove the jeep for about 2 weeks, or 600 miles with a tire balance problem on the front which did cause a shimmy between 50-55, not a death wobble, but a shimmy, would this lead to other issues?
Ball joints
Tie rod ends
Trackbar
Welded washers over trackbar bolt holes if ovaled out
Drag link
Welded washers over lower control arm bracket bolt holes if ovaled out
Gusseted or replaced axle side trackbar bracket
Removed the steering stabilizer to stop it from masking the real source of the problem
Steering box &/or sector shaft
Lower control arms if bushings were damaged by DW or by having them torqued at a level different than ride height
Note: Jeep has stock wheels and tires but has 2.5" budget boost. Previously, for 4.5 years had 33x12.5x15 tires.
whats new
Moog Track Bar- Note Moog track bushing hole was larger than factory bolt. Replaced the factory bolt with slightly larger bolt. Torqued to factory spec
Drag link
Tie rod
Tie Rod ends
New Rancho Steering stab> Note: Also had on a monroe steering stab and had same issue.
Not replaced> Ball joints and control arm bushings.
Had jeep alignment and all suspension inspected by a shop. Ball joints good, bearing play good. They can't figure it out.
However I'm a little short on cash this week so I decided just to look at it my self for another once over. Everthing is tight, except like I said about the control arm can move side to side in the mount at the axle location. I'm not sure if movement is normal or not in this circumstance. It isn't much.
I would think the different bushing sleeve, bolt size, and bracket holes of the trackbar are very, very suspect. In particular, I would think this would lead to either ovaled out bushing sleeves and/or ovaled out bracket holes.
Bushings have some give, but the sleeve in the lower control arm bushing should not have material play within the lower control arm brackets.
opCorn:
Tim87114 your not alone in this struggle. Many jeepers face these problems at one point or another. Planman makes many good points about cause/solution, but every jeep is different. I too am trying to solve my shimmy/DW woes. Mine got worse after rotating my tires. 48-52 MPH is the magic # for shimmy which would be followed by "OMG I'm gonna crash DW". Just recently replaced my track bar with a JKS mostly cause after doing a "turn the wheel while someone looks at steering for play" noticed up/down play in the ball joint end on the frame side of the TB. Also, I've been wanting to get the axle centered properly for sometime.
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