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Death wobble help

4K views 42 replies 10 participants last post by  tim87114 
#1 · (Edited)
Guys,
First off, I'm starting a new thread, I'm sorry I already have another thread on the subject but I really need some help on this one.

I've taken my jeep to three shops now. I personally and the three shops have inspected the jeep and can't find anything wrong to fix the death wobble. It happens between 55-65 and is triggered by hitting even the smallest bump in the road.
Here is the latest alignment numbers. Note: I did the initial setup on this with a tape measure after I found that the previous shop either didn't adjust it or couldn't adjust it, it was 1/2" toed out. Don't know why.

All below are in degrees
Front Actual Before Spec
Cross camber -.05 -.4 -1/1
cross caster 0.0 0.0 -7/.7
cross SA 1.0 0.9

Left
Actual before spec
Camber -.6 -.6 -.9/.4
Caster 6.8 6.8 6.0/8.0
TOE .18 -.06 .09/.21

Right
Actual before spec
Camber -.1 -.1 -.9/.4
Caster 6.7 6.7 6.0/8.0
TOE .12 -.02 .09/.21

FYI Jeep is stock height, stock size tires, NEW
Tires Verified for balance previous to alignment
Has new track bar, NAPA with a new High durometer Bushing, 7/16" bolt
New tie rods and adjusters
New linkages
New control arm bushings upper and lower
All torques checked
Verified steering wheel play with engine off, non
Verified wheel bushings for play, prybar between axle housing and u-joint housing at axle end. No movement
Verified ujoints in axles by prybar method. No movement
Verified Balljoint by tires off ground, large pry bar under tires. No movement
Verified steering box loosness, no movement
New Shocks
New steering damper "Rancho" Model.

So now what? The shop yesterday was scratching thier heads. I only told them to check for the alingment and told them it shimmy's. Nothing else. I didn't want to taint any information. The alignment guy told me "I thought I was going to die, you really shouldn't be driving that thing" :eek:
So now, three shops and the entire front end is new except wheel bearings, balljoints and steering box. Any IDEAS?
Again, minor bump, 55-65mph. Any concrete freeway, as the newyorkers say, "forget about it"
Oh, the only thing different on the set up. It is using a 97 jeep grand cherokee solid bar tie rod on the lower instead of the hollow tube type that is stock. I'm down to maybe just putting a stock set up back on just to see if it corrects it :dunno: Although this looks just like a currie set up.

Heres the parts
Jeep wrangler
tie rod Ptmn to knuckle DS1430
Left outer ES3094
left inner es3095
At pitman es3096
Tie rod connector 3' DS1326S

Used these instead off all the above.
cherokee
tie rod Ptmn to knuckle DS3110
Left outer ES3096
At pitman ES3096
Tie rod V8 solid bar DS1312
Adjusting sleeves qty 2 ES2079S

Note because the lower Tierod is solid you use two of the same tierod ends instead of three different ones on the vehicle. This set up would be the same type of setup after market shops sell to "upgrade" to tougher components.
 
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#34 ·
Yes, that is correct.
Brand new bushings on each end of the control arms, upper and lower. The upper axle housing was real fun. It took me a good two hours. :).

Also just to clarify. Friday I bought a brand New Napa MOOG track bar. On the axle end I drilled it out slightly to a 7/16" bolt. I've installed a grade 8 and torqued to 55 ft lbs.

Replacing the bushings for control arms, I only tightened the nuts or bolts until they contacted the brackets. Then set the jeep on the ground. Then tightened and torqued to factory specs per the spec sheet off of our forum list.

Drove the jeep, then re-torqued or checked torque. I've also checked it every couple of days.
As far as movement goes in the axle. Wheels on ground, vehicle off and then checked with vehicle running.
Movement at TB at frame> NONE
Movement at TB at Axle> NONE
Steering>
Movement of Tie Rod end at pitman> NONE no play
Movement of tie rod end at passenger knuckle> NONE, no play
Movement of tie rod end at drag link, INNER TIE ROD LEFT> NONE> NO PLAY
Movement of tie rod at drivers knuckle , Left Outer> NONE, No Play.
Gear Box mounting> Solid, bolt torque checked GOOD.
Gear box steering play> NONE with power on, or power off. Slight turn of steering wheel has direct effect of tire movement> Checks out good, no slop in either direction.
Steering gear u-joints> No play

Axle ends> Ball joints> No play vertically or axial
Unit bearings> No play in axial direction with 2x4 or pry bar on front side of wheel. No play when using pry bar between axle housing end and back side of flange at axle ujoint. no noise from unit bearings.
 
#35 ·
OK,
Throwing this out there. My jeep is set up with a tow bar. I am curious what type of reaction the jeep would have if I tow it behind my 1 ton truck to see if the DW occurs or not? It would not have power to the power steering box so it would be like mechanical steering at that point.
Is it possible that there is a valve or pressure valve sticking in the gear box or pump allowing for cross talk or shimmy?
 
#36 ·
I think maybe I need to start using my engineering skills. It seems this is beyond steering and mechanical hardware/bracketry at this point.

Maybe I need to check the run out on my axle shafts and see if there is any possibilities of a bent axle tube. Only thing there is the axle shaft is "floating" between the carrier and the outer housing. I have never hit anything or wheeled my jeep to hard. But the DW didn't start until my wife started driving the jeep for about a month. So if she hit something hard I wouldn't know for sure.

Also when it first started all of this four months ago it did the DW at 35-45mph, now it's right at 60mph. So replacing parts just moved the frequency up the scale.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Update:

:confused:
Alright, Wifes gone this week so I have plenty of time to look into this thing.
Tow Test> Conclusive, death wobble did happen.

Inspection again of all front end components.
Bushings> new
Track Bar> new, No left to right movement, Does not move with prybar either.
All bolts> Torqued to spec non moved
Steering, no slop and no odd movement.

Pulled all 4 wheels and went to America's tire. Watched them Road Force Balance the tires.
No issues, no out of round.

So I'm back to square one. I'm left with balljoints and unit bearings on the front. Only. I purchased all 4 ball joints today for the front and will install them this evening and take it for a spin.
I also ordered all 8 suspension bushings for the rear and they will arrive tomorrow at noon.

Secondary test> Had person rock the rear of the jeep side to side and up and down while inspecting the rear suspension. Only issue was thesway bar had some slop in it at the axle connection points. Rear track bar did not have any play or movement at the mounting point.
Bushings look ok, they aren't cracked or anything. If you grab the control arm and "twist it", it will move about a 1/16" or so. Basically the rubber deflection. The parts are cheap so I'm just going to replace them.

FYI<
I've done everything very scientifically as far as inspection and testing. I've only done one thing at a time.
 
#38 ·
:cheers: UPDATE:
Took the jeep to another shop just to confirm I'm not completely crazy. They said they can't figure it out and luckily didn't charge me. The clicking in the steering box was suspect and as such I just pulled the plug and upgraded to a durango box. It didn't change or fix it.
I really need to get this DW fixed as I want put a lift on. Also they checked the rear and said nothing was bad except the Sway bar bushings on the rear.
Also, balljoints and unit bearings checked out.

So I'm at a dead end here.
Anyone near Sacramento that would be willing to give it a good once over?
 
#39 ·
UPDATE:
Saturday.
Removed the entire steering system to verify TRE's. All were still like new. Nice and tight.
Removed driver side unit bearing from axle. No issues and no noise or grinding when rotating. Verified the passenger side unit bearing previously.
Verified all torque specs to all control arms
Inspected frame for any cracks
Rechecked play at any TRE or Track bar
Steering box is brand new and no play

Tow test confirmation.
Removed Brake pads only from both sides of front end. Tow'd the jeep at 60-70mph on concrete freeway. No DW at all. Wheels did not even shimmy.

Circled back and installed brake pads. First compressed the calipers fully. Installed pads then pumped the brakes up till pads contacted rotors. Drove jeep around the block to verify brake functionality is normal.

Tow Test with pads. Same stretch of road at 60-70mph. DW happens.
Took jeep to freshly paved road that is flat. Found jeep has slight pull to the right. This would almost indicate that the right caliper maybe sticking and causing a difference in wheel speed.
Could this be the culprit after all? I guess it will have to wait till friday to find out.
 
#43 ·
I'm starting to wonder the samething. I drove it again yesterday on the freeway as I was stuck having to drive it.
On the first trip I had to speed up to get on the freeway and no DW at all right at 60mph.
Later when I left work I kept it under 60 and when hitting a bump or crack the front end just feels loose.
I got home and rechecked everything again. Nothing is loose and the axle doesn't move side to side with the steering. All brackets are good and no cracks, no rust nothing.

So tomorrow is payday. My wife and I agree that it will get new pads and calipers. But if it doesn't fix it then it maybe the end of the line for my jeep ownership days.
I really need to maybe get it to the dealership, but it's been to two jeep specialty shops and they couldn't figure it out. I know the dealership will just want to put a steering stap on there, but mine is brand new "rancho rs5000"
 
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