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Unread 01-02-2012, 02:38 PM   #106
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More of the top after finished painting..




I think it turned out pretty good..

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Unread 01-02-2012, 02:40 PM   #107
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BrowningGal's Jeep After Lift, Tires, Wheels, Brakes, Painted Flares and Painted Top.



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Unread 01-02-2012, 02:43 PM   #108
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Comparison Pics...

Before the work was done..



After Work Was Done


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Unread 01-04-2012, 04:50 PM   #109
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OK Folks, I drove my daughters jeep to work today just to see how it is driving after all the work. Before this I had just basically been around the block in it a few times. Today was about 20 miles each way with some highway and interstate driving. It done real well, great ride but have three problems that I need to figure out.

1. Steering wheel shimmy's back and forth at about 45 MPH. Alignment is good and I it has new tierod and ends. I have not replaced the steering stabilizer and feel this might be the culprit. It is probably the original with 67K miles. Was thinking of getting the black diamond steering stabilizer for it. Do you guys think this will fix it and do you think black diamond is a good product?

2. Steering feels awful light in the front end. It steers to easy for my liking, no resistance at all. Again believe steering stabilizer may help this as well. Or should I be thinking drop pitman arm with 2" of lift instead of steering stabilizer?

3. Not really feeling any vibrations but sort of hear a "ROMP, ROMP, ROMP" at approx 55 mph. I think I might need to add some washers to drop the TC just a little but don't really know where to start. 1/4", 1/2" etc.. how much usually makes a little difference? Where would you start, 2 washer under each bolt, three etc..?

Thanks for all the help.. I really need to get this thing to it's peak performance before daughter goes back to school next week.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 05:15 PM   #110
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Im still learn about these TJ. But Ive read its a bad idea to add a drop pitman arm to a TJ. You should send a msg to mrblaine on here. You might ask Connor too here is a link to his Jeep build http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/f...-build-698250/
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Unread 01-04-2012, 05:22 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanksRide
OK Folks, I drove my daughters jeep to work today just to see how it is driving after all the work. Before this I had just basically been around the block in it a few times. Today was about 20 miles each way with some highway and interstate driving. It done real well, great ride but have three problems that I need to figure out.

1. Steering wheel shimmy's back and forth at about 45 MPH. Alignment is good and I it has new tierod and ends. I have not replaced the steering stabilizer and feel this might be the culprit. It is probably the original with 67K miles. Was thinking of getting the black diamond steering stabilizer for it. Do you guys think this will fix it and do you think black diamond is a good product?

2. Steering feels awful light in the front end. It steers to easy for my liking, no resistance at all. Again believe steering stabilizer may help this as well. Or should I be thinking drop pitman arm with 2" of lift instead of steering stabilizer?

3. Not really feeling any vibrations but sort of hear a "ROMP, ROMP, ROMP" at approx 55 mph. I think I might need to add some washers to drop the TC just a little but don't really know where to start. 1/4", 1/2" etc.. how much usually makes a little difference? Where would you start, 2 washer under each bolt, three etc..?

Thanks for all the help.. I really need to get this thing to it's peak performance before daughter goes back to school next week.
The light shimmy is most likely a tire balance issue. Jeeps really need to be dead nuts on the balancing. It takes a couple of tries sometimes. Get it road force balanced with hammer on weights inside and out if you can. If not do stick on weights inside and out.

Your other steering issues sound like steering box slack causing the movement and lack of positive caster and or being toed out causing the light flighty steering. By all means put a new stabilizer on it, but be sure you have 3-5 deg positive caster, and are at zero toe. Do not listen to a alignment man, TELL HIM THE PARAMETERS YOU WANT.

Try 1/2" of drop on the case and see what that does. Bear in mind that case drops put a tremendous amount more stress on the frame where the nutserts are.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #112
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I agree with Heath on the caster. A bit more could solve the light feeling and the slight shimmy. When I first lifted the '98 I had it had similar but worse symptoms. I just dialing in a bit more caster (mine had cam bolts) and the issues was cleared up.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 05:49 PM   #113
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I agree with Heath on the caster. A bit more could solve the light feeling and the slight shimmy. When I first lifted the '98 I had it had similar but worse symptoms. I just dialing in a bit more caster (mine had cam bolts) and the issues was cleared up.
I am a little familar with caster on a YJ and understand there is really no adjustment for caster there. Is there some kind of adjustment on this TJ, if so how do I adjust castor? I tend to get caster and camber mixed up a bit, caster is front and back center on axle and camber is top of tire leaning in or out, (is that right or do I have it reversed?)
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Unread 01-04-2012, 06:26 PM   #114
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I too get confused on the camber/caster measurements from time to time..

You sound like your on the right track with which is which, your caster is what you will be adjusting with your tie rod. I keep mine about 1/8" positive (closer in the front) but I think its recommended 1/16"-1/8" or so. I run 35" tires so with the weight of the tire it only makes sense to me to have a little more toe-in.

I think what Heath is referring to (correct me if I'm wrong) is if your caster is not towed in and either straight or towed out then your jeep will have a "light feeling" as you described because your tires will be wanting to turn or direct you towards slight movements in your steering wheel. I bought a 97 TJ once that was this way, and after a quick alignment it was 100% better. Could be the problem? not sure..

as for the rustoleum hammered black, I love that stuff!! I have painted my front grill, bumpers and rock guards with it along with many other parts on previous jeeps I have had!

Great looking jeep! Nice to see your daughter actually getting her hands in on the process, my little sister recently (a year or so ago) got a 2001 TJ and is always willing to get her hands dirty helping in any way she can.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poobub View Post
I too get confused on the camber/caster measurements from time to time..

You sound like your on the right track with which is which, your caster is what you will be adjusting with your tie rod. I keep mine about 1/8" positive (closer in the front) but I think its recommended 1/16"-1/8" or so. I run 35" tires so with the weight of the tire it only makes sense to me to have a little more toe-in.

I think what Heath is referring to (correct me if I'm wrong) is if your caster is not towed in and either straight or towed out then your jeep will have a "light feeling" as you described because your tires will be wanting to turn or direct you towards slight movements in your steering wheel. I bought a 97 TJ once that was this way, and after a quick alignment it was 100% better. Could be the problem? not sure..

as for the rustoleum hammered black, I love that stuff!! I have painted my front grill, bumpers and rock guards with it along with many other parts on previous jeeps I have had!

Great looking jeep! Nice to see your daughter actually getting her hands in on the process, my little sister recently (a year or so ago) got a 2001 TJ and is always willing to get her hands dirty helping in any way she can.
From what I have read on other threads, the adjustment made with the tie-rod is toe (in/out) not caster. I understand there are 3 different settings we are talking about here. Caster (like a shopping cart front wheel, gets pulled by the axle and not pushed by it) Camber (the top of the tire directly under the fender well leaning in or out = +/- camber) and then there is toe-in and toe-out like you have described above. The toe in and toe out is the only adjustment that I thought I could make without adjustable ball joints or other suspension mods. When I aligned it I adjusted it to 1/8" toe-in. It drives straight and rides great, not like an out of balance tire would bounce but it does feel really light on the front wheels and has about a 1" back and forth shimmy in the steering wheel at approx 45mph. I can only feel it in the steering wheel and not in the seat or legs etc like it is coming from a bouncing tire. The steering seems tight, not any excessive slack when turning the wheel before the tires turn. Also I noticed that I can accelerate past the shimmy by applying more than normal throttle until I get to around 55 mph or above and it doesn't seem to do it then.

Again pardon me if I have the caster and camber reversed, I tend to forget which one is which...
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Unread 01-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #116
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Hank, Your daughter's Jeep is looking great!

You're correct on the difference between camber and caster. Too little caster can cause the Jeep to wander a bit or feel light. The proper caster also enables the Jeep to return itself to straight after turning. The caster can be adjusted +/- 1.5° by installing cam bolts on the axle end of the front lower control arms. Maxing out the cam bolts essentially lengthens the control arm, increasing the caster angle.

We bought the cam bolts as well as a new stabilizer from BDS when we purchased the lift.

We needed 5/8" worth of washers on the TC skid and will soon be loosing those and installing a MML instead.

I would also guess that the shimmy is wheel balance related.

Doug
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Unread 01-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
Hank, Your daughter's Jeep is looking great!

You're correct on the difference between camber and caster. Too little caster can cause the Jeep to wander a bit or feel light. The proper caster also enables the Jeep to return itself to straight after turning. The caster can be adjusted +/- 1.5° by installing cam bolts on the axle end of the front lower control arms. Maxing out the cam bolts essentially lengthens the control arm, increasing the caster angle.

We bought the cam bolts as well as a new stabilizer from BDS when we purchased the lift.

We needed 5/8" worth of washers on the TC skid and will soon be loosing those and installing a MML instead.

I would also guess that the shimmy is wheel balance related.

Doug
Thanks Doug, now that is making more sense to me. I was wondering how to adjust caster on this thing... I will take a look at the BDS bolts and stabilizer... I think I will rearrange some tires and see if it improves the shimmy.

Thanks for the compliment as well, she loves the jeep.. I don't get to test drive it much because it is always gone.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #118
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Ok yes, I did a little reading myself and you are correct. I never realized caster and toe were different, that really explains a lot. I apologize for giving false information, I try my best to not comment unless I know 100% sure what I am saying is correct. On a positive note, I stand corrected and now understand the difference myself . I have replaced all of my CA's and have noticed the "cam bolts", noticing they have lines on the brackets. I never understood the reasoning for this, but now that I know its adjustable it makes me wonder if I have mine set right. Than again, I have fully adj upper and lower arms, therefore maybe that is how I would adj. my caster at this point? Oh man I have a lot to read up on.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #119
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I just read the instructions on how to install the cam bolts... Now I am a little more confused, is it possible that the cam bolts I have are good but need a professional alignment to adjust them after the lift was installed? Or are the original cam bolts even adjustable at all? From the instructions it leads me to believe that I might can just have mine adjusted properly and be good to go.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 07:47 PM   #120
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Caster is the angle that the steering axis leans back from vertical. To add caster you need effectively lengthen the front lower control arms. Since you have the stock arms you'll need to add cam bolts to the axle ends of the lower control arms.
While skimming your thread I didn't see anywhere during the lift install that you dealt with the control arm bushings. You need to loosen all the control arm bushing bolts with the weight of the Jeep on the ground so that the torsion rubber bushings can 'relax' then re-tighten the bolts.
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