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Unread 07-01-2010, 05:02 AM   #16
RubiconBlack
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I have done a ton on pinion seals from working at Chrysler Dodge Jeep Dealership. The only time I ever used hand tools was when I first set up the pre-load on the bearings and crushing the sleeve. Even using a impact to try to start crushing the sleeve is almost impossible sometimes. Mark the yoke to driveshaft that way you keep the drivetrain in line and won't cause a vibration. Use a 1/2" impact to remove the pinion nut. Don't hit the pinion itself whatever you do. That way the pre-load should stay where its set. Don't smash the yoke with a hammer if you need to help the yoke slide off the pinion because if you bent the yoke, it will cause a vibration. Just hit the yoke little by little back until it slides off. Use a medium screwdriver and your hammer to hit the sides of the seal in and work your way around the seal. When I stay "sides of the seal", I mean the part that is not into the pinion housing of the axle. Hit the seal into the center of the seal. It will bend and as you work your way around it, it will start to come out of the axle. Clean the sealant out of the pinion housing and you will need a socket or something big enough to fit around the outer edge the seal. Basically the socket or whatever your going to use hitting the same part of the old seal you hit to remove it. Put some grease on the inside of the new seal over the little spring. This holds the spring from falling out during installation. Use your hammer to tap the socket or whatever your using to push the seal into the housing. Once the seal is flush with the housing, slide the yoke back onto the pinion and use your impact to tighten your pinion nut. Once the socket stops spinnig your tight enough! Reinstall the driveshaft and top off the fluid and your done. I hope this helps and let us know how it goes!

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Unread 07-01-2010, 08:51 AM   #17
TeeJay00
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Wow... Thanks RubiconBlack for that step by step instructions

I will also try to take pictures to show the work I did.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 09:04 AM   #18
bnine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiconBlack View Post
I have done a ton on pinion seals from working at Chrysler Dodge Jeep Dealership. The only time I ever used hand tools was when I first set up the pre-load on the bearings and crushing the sleeve. Even using a impact to try to start crushing the sleeve is almost impossible sometimes. Mark the yoke to driveshaft that way you keep the drivetrain in line and won't cause a vibration. Use a 1/2" impact to remove the pinion nut. Don't hit the pinion itself whatever you do. That way the pre-load should stay where its set. Don't smash the yoke with a hammer if you need to help the yoke slide off the pinion because if you bent the yoke, it will cause a vibration. Just hit the yoke little by little back until it slides off. Use a medium screwdriver and your hammer to hit the sides of the seal in and work your way around the seal. When I stay "sides of the seal", I mean the part that is not into the pinion housing of the axle. Hit the seal into the center of the seal. It will bend and as you work your way around it, it will start to come out of the axle. Clean the sealant out of the pinion housing and you will need a socket or something big enough to fit around the outer edge the seal. Basically the socket or whatever your going to use hitting the same part of the old seal you hit to remove it. Put some grease on the inside of the new seal over the little spring. This holds the spring from falling out during installation. Use your hammer to tap the socket or whatever your using to push the seal into the housing. Once the seal is flush with the housing, slide the yoke back onto the pinion and use your impact to tighten your pinion nut. Once the socket stops spinnig your tight enough! Reinstall the driveshaft and top off the fluid and your done. I hope this helps and let us know how it goes!

This is one of the worst pinion seal posts I've ever read.

Techs like this are what give flat rate guys a bad name. Lazy short cuts typically resulting in half assed results.

You forgot to tell the op to make sure he up sells to a brake job while he's in here.

Even if you are going to cheat and not do a new crush sleeve, at least mark the nut and finish off the re tighten by hand. Im not fond of that method either, but at least its a tad more reliable then the complete bull**** method thats posted above.

Hit it with an impact and hope for the best. For christ sakes
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Unread 07-05-2010, 09:31 AM   #19
TeeJay00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnine View Post
This is one of the worst pinion seal posts I've ever read.

Techs like this are what give flat rate guys a bad name. Lazy short cuts typically resulting in half assed results.

You forgot to tell the op to make sure he up sells to a brake job while he's in here.

Even if you are going to cheat and not do a new crush sleeve, at least mark the nut and finish off the re tighten by hand. Im not fond of that method either, but at least its a tad more reliable then the complete bull**** method thats posted above.

Hit it with an impact and hope for the best. For christ sakes
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Unread 07-05-2010, 04:42 PM   #20
RubiconBlack
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Yeah Bnine in the 5 years in a flat rate shop I have never had a single one come back with a pinion bearing or seal problem. Our master tech showed me this procedure, and in his 14 years as a master doing it this way, never one returned. Where was your input?

TeeJay00 I was just trying to help and give you my method that works for me. I know there is another method but I have never had a issue doing it my way and I just wanted to lend a hand. Goodluck either road you choose.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 06:04 PM   #21
TeeJay00
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Calm down guys and take it easy... I appreciate all the advice and help I got and can or would get from all of you guys.

Now RubiconBLack, as I said before thank you so much for posting those instructions that are actually pretty easy for me to follow with my normal personal tools. I still haven't had the time to work on the pinion seal yet. But planning on soon and will post the updates when finished.

As for you Bnine. I am sure your intentions were to prevent me or anyone else reading this post from making a mistake or start ruining a good working axle.
However, the method you took in lashing out on RubiconBlack like that was unprofessional and totally uncalled for. We are all here either to help or to get help from others who share the same passion for Jeeps.

I know you meant well and I appreciate it but please next time when wish to help remember that there is a button on your keyboard that says "Del", I suggest you use it when you type things like that before you post it because nobody hear wants to read it.

Thank you all
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Unread 07-06-2010, 09:03 AM   #22
bnine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiconBlack View Post
Yeah Bnine in the 5 years in a flat rate shop I have never had a single one come back with a pinion bearing or seal problem. Our master tech showed me this procedure, and in his 14 years as a master doing it this way, never one returned. Where was your input?

TeeJay00 I was just trying to help and give you my method that works for me. I know there is another method but I have never had a issue doing it my way and I just wanted to lend a hand. Goodluck either road you choose.
I dont care if god father dodge taught you this method. This is not how you explain a procedure like this to a complete newbie.

As a professional mechanic, you should know better. What is second nature for you, and the short cuts you get away with because of your background should never be passed off to the general public as "simple".

Not to mention your impact technique on a crush sleeve axle is completely off side. That works fine for a shimmed pinion, provided you know what to feel for. On a crush sleeve, its completely unacceptable. It doesnt matter if you've gotten away with it or not.

That is why dealers have such a bad name for axle work. Dealer techs almost never do axle work, and their flat rate attitudes make for shoddy work when they do.

You want to help, thats awesome, but you should not make assumptions regardings peoples abilities.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 09:08 AM   #23
bnine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeJay00 View Post
Calm down guys and take it easy... I appreciate all the advice and help I got and can or would get from all of you guys.

Now RubiconBLack, as I said before thank you so much for posting those instructions that are actually pretty easy for me to follow with my normal personal tools. I still haven't had the time to work on the pinion seal yet. But planning on soon and will post the updates when finished.

As for you Bnine. I am sure your intentions were to prevent me or anyone else reading this post from making a mistake or start ruining a good working axle.
However, the method you took in lashing out on RubiconBlack like that was unprofessional and totally uncalled for. We are all here either to help or to get help from others who share the same passion for Jeeps.

I know you meant well and I appreciate it but please next time when wish to help remember that there is a button on your keyboard that says "Del", I suggest you use it when you type things like that before you post it because nobody hear wants to read it.

Thank you all
Dont preach to me Teejay. You dont understand what you are dealing with, and what the potential consequences are if something goes wrong.

You screw this up and it can cost you your entire front axle assembly, not to mention if it decides to lock up on the hiway it can cause some very serious damage to a lot of stuff and possibly lead to injury.

Whats unprofessional is a career tech giving you this kind of advice.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 09:32 AM   #24
TeeJay00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnine View Post
Dont preach to me Teejay. You dont understand what you are dealing with, and what the potential consequences are if something goes wrong.

You screw this up and it can cost you your entire front axle assembly, not to mention if it decides to lock up on the hiway it can cause some very serious damage to a lot of stuff and possibly lead to injury.

Whats unprofessional is a career tech giving you this kind of advice.
I know the consequences of my mistakes... That is why I asked you guys!!! But you need to lighten up pal.

Now enough with this quoting posts Bnine tell me what do you think I should do instead. Tell me how to change my pinion seal.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 10:45 AM   #25
bnine
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Check pinion bearings for play. If play is found, disregard the following instructions and have pinion bearings replaced.

Pull cover and drop the oil. If you have a drainable cover, just drop the oil.

Remove wheels, brakes, and axle shafts.

Mark drive shaft orientation and remove it

Mark pinion nut orientation and count the threads showing.

Measure combined pinion and carrier preload with a inch pound torque wrench.

Remove nut, yoke, and seal.

Check yoke for seal groove. Replace if required.

Clean seal section of housing thoroughly, ensure no oil is left on the surface.

Coat seal with permatex, or loctite flange sealant.

Install seal

Coat yoke in oil, install yoke.

Loctite and re install pinion nut to previous position, plus 1/8th of a turn.

Measure rotating resistance. Ensure it is equal to or SLIGHTLY greater then the original reading.

Re assemble the the axle assembly, fill with oil, etc etc.

Personally I dont even favor this method, as it is still a short cut, but it does work in a pinch and is far more accurate then rolling dice on an impact.

Ideally the crush sleeve and pinion nut should be replaced as both are technically one time use components.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 10:48 AM   #26
bnine
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Originally Posted by TeeJay00 View Post
But you need to lighten up pal.
You should tell that to my freind that rolled his CJ and almost ended up in the hospital when his pinion bearings seized on the hiway right after he did the gears.

Its never a big deal until happens to you, or someone you know.

Want to bet he takes his time to do his pinions properly now?
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Unread 07-06-2010, 02:11 PM   #27
TeeJay00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnine View Post
Check pinion bearings for play. If play is found, disregard the following instructions and have pinion bearings replaced.

Pull cover and drop the oil. If you have a drainable cover, just drop the oil.

Remove wheels, brakes, and axle shafts.

Mark drive shaft orientation and remove it

Mark pinion nut orientation and count the threads showing.

Measure combined pinion and carrier preload with a inch pound torque wrench.

Remove nut, yoke, and seal.

Check yoke for seal groove. Replace if required.

Clean seal section of housing thoroughly, ensure no oil is left on the surface.

Coat seal with permatex, or loctite flange sealant.

Install seal

Coat yoke in oil, install yoke.

Loctite and re install pinion nut to previous position, plus 1/8th of a turn.

Measure rotating resistance. Ensure it is equal to or SLIGHTLY greater then the original reading.

Re assemble the the axle assembly, fill with oil, etc etc.

Personally I dont even favor this method, as it is still a short cut, but it does work in a pinch and is far more accurate then rolling dice on an impact.

Ideally the crush sleeve and pinion nut should be replaced as both are technically one time use components.
So in other words you are saying that I can't do it myself at home !
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Unread 07-06-2010, 02:21 PM   #28
bnine
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I didnt say that.

Anyone with jackstands, some hand tools, and a torque wrench can do it.

You can take the short cuts, its your choice, but whats the point? Are you on the clock? Does having to do a pinion seal once in 5 years not warrent a little extra time to ensure its done right?
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Unread 07-06-2010, 02:28 PM   #29
TeeJay00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnine View Post
I didnt say that.

Anyone with jackstands, some hand tools, and a torque wrench can do it.

You can take the short cuts, its your choice, but whats the point? Are you on the clock? Does having to do a pinion seal once in 5 years not warrent a little extra time to ensure its done right?
We already covered this matter earlier in this thread when I said I don't have a torque wrench, no impact wrench and no air compressor either.
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Unread 07-06-2010, 03:06 PM   #30
bnine
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INCH POUND TORQUE WRENCH KD 0-60 IN LB TLSM10 on eBay.ca (item 220275097994 end time 20-Jul-10 17:23:42 EDT)
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axle , d30 , front , leak , oil , pinion , pinion seal , replacement , seal , tj , wrangler

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