Crossover Steering Clearance Issues

[Tommy R]

Hey y'all,

So I'm upgrading my steering setup using GM "1 ton" tie rod ends and beefy 1.5" DOM (1/4" wall). It's a pretty common setup, though most people seem to use 1.25" DOM. Anyway, I knew I was going to have clearance issues, but they seem to be a bit worse than expected. Here's some pics of the mock-up:

Driver side. Minor clearance issue as it will only require a relocation of the sway bar endlink. No biggie.


Passenger side. Here things get more involved. I'd already raised the sway bar mount 'cause I stretched it when I built the long arm setup. But look at the clearance issues between the tie rod and the track bar mount area.




I'm planning on just hacking off the track bar and steering stabilizer mounts, most likely along with my reworked sway bar endlink mount. Before I do. I'm curious what others have done. I've seen a nice track bar relocation bracket from JKS, but I'd like to see one installed along with one of these pseudo-high steer crossover setups like JCR, etc.

Here's JKS' bracket: http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=FAB_920_925&Store_Code=JKS01&C ategory_Code=FABParts

Thanks,
Tommy

[RYANSTULC]

1-ton steering DONE! *pics*

Here's my write-up.

Since posting this thread, I've decided to make some other changes. I bought the "over the axle track bar relocation bracket" from www.partsmike.com

I also bought all new TRE's and a different pitman arm. It's all in the garage, just not installed yet.

I also had to modify my swaybar connects on the axle. They stuck up too far and hit the tie-rod. So, I just cut off the obstruction, and re-drilled a new connection hole closer to the axle. I then simply lengthened my links on my AntiRock. What I have works, but what I will have will work better.

[Tommy R]

Thanks, but it looks like your knuckles' tie rod end locations are much farther forward than those on a D30. Is that right? My tie rod can't even connect from knuckle to knuckle right now. The track bar bracket is that much in the way. I don't think doing what you did would net me enough clearance....

Tommy

[RYANSTULC]

Oops, forgot to check your front axle specs.
So to answer your question, I do have D44 knuckles which stick further forward. When I bought my jeep it had older CJ style D30 knuckles. This caused many issues in regards to making my steering work well (similar to your situation)
I don't know if you can swap different (D44) knuckles onto a stock D30? If you can,,,,then there's your answer. Of course you will then need a longer pitman arm as well.
How bad does the tie-rod hit the diff cover? Or does the trackbar bracket hit first?

[Tommy R]

I'm not sure if I have any options for my knuckles unless I go custom and that's not feasible for me ($$$). If I could get some D44 knuckles that would work with my axles, I'd consider that route....or if there's any kind of "bolt-on" high steeer setup for a D30 knuckle. But I don't know of any. Not to mention I've already reamed my D30 knuckles.

First, though, I think I'll lop off the steering stabilizer bracket and the sway bar end link on the driver's side and see how much clearance that provides. If enough, then great. If not, then I'll have to re-evaluate. As of right now I'm not sure there is tie rod to diff cover clearance issues, but I'll know tonight after I cut off the steering stabilizer bracket.

Tommy

[Tommy R]

Oh, so I've been thinking of the JKS track bar relocation bracket. It moves the track bar up on top of the axle. That might work (though it may also require the use of a dropped pitman arm), but my track bar would likely have to be shortened significantly. Just another option...

Tommy

[foreman1063]

How about the diff cover? Does the tie rod hit the cover when you turn the knuckles side to side? That's a problem I had when I attempted OTK steering.
Also, make sure you use spacers between the knuckles and the tie rod ends or you will have a ton of slop in the steering.
http://www.jcroffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1TNSTBSH&Cat egory_Code=S6

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by foreman1063

How about the diff cover? Does the tie rod hit the cover when you turn the knuckles side to side? That's a problem I had when I attempted OTK steering.
Also, make sure you use spacers between the knuckles and the tie rod ends or you will have a ton of slop in the steering.
http://www.jcroffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1TNSTBSH&Cat egory_Code=S6

I can't turn the steering enough right now to see if there's clearance issues with the diff cover. I should be able to see that tonight, hopefully, after I remove the steering stablizer bracket.

I didn't know about those spacers. I wonder that I may be hosed now that I've already reamed the knuckles. Great...

Tommy

[foreman1063]

Yeah, if you don't use the spacers the tie rod rolls a little when the drag link pushes it. You will feel noticeable slop in the steering on the road. When the tie rod ends are seated all the way down in the knuckle there is about a 3/8" gap between the knuckle and the TRE. If you reamed the knuckle so that the TRE tapered stud goes all the way to the end of the taper you should still be fine.

[Tommy R]

Makes sense. I just hope I didn't ream the knuckles too far. Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I ordered them this morning...

Tommy

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by RYANSTULC

1-ton steering DONE! *pics*

Here's my write-up.

Since posting this thread, I've decided to make some other changes. I bought the "over the axle track bar relocation bracket" from www.partsmike.com

I also bought all new TRE's and a different pitman arm. It's all in the garage, just not installed yet.

I also had to modify my swaybar connects on the axle. They stuck up too far and hit the tie-rod. So, I just cut off the obstruction, and re-drilled a new connection hole closer to the axle. I then simply lengthened my links on my AntiRock. What I have works, but what I will have will work better.

I read your initial write-up when you first posted and didn't really believe your evaluation of it then.

Why are you changing it, if you had this to say about it?

Originally Posted by RYANSTULC

In conclusion, tonight I drove home from the shop at speeds up to 70 MPH.
Absolutely no bump-steer, no death-wobble, and it tracks straight and true.
Also, there's no stabilizer at all. Steers with one finger on the steering wheel at highway speeds.
I'm happy, and I owe a huge thanks to my friend Brad. He's the mastermind behind this project.

[RYANSTULC]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

I read your initial write-up when you first posted and didn't really believe your evaluation of it then.

Why are you changing it, if you had this to say about it?

After wheeling hard, I discovered it's possible to shear off the TRE @ the draglink / tie-rod connection. The entire force of my ram is transferring through one TRE.

The new track-bar bracket will free up much needed room. This room will allow me to mount the ram from axle tube, directly to tie-rod.
Mucho bettero

[Tommy R]

Well, I did some clearancing tonight to see what it's going to take to get this 1.5" DOM to clear everything. It took a lot of grinding, but things looked good.....until.....

Well, first here's how it looked pointed straight after clearancing:


Here it is at full driver. I had to remove the sway bar mount and trim the spring perch a bit, but even though it looks close, there's no contact:




Here's the passenger side at full lock. The tie rod touches the axle, but just barely and nearly simultaneously when the steering stop hits. I may do a bit more clearancing anyway. Snaking a sway bar mount in there will be tight for sure. Also, the drag link TRE clearance will be tight near the axle (when turned driver), but I think it'll fit:


Here's a close-up of what I had to do to get clearance. Keep in mind the front axle is stretched only about an inch:


So there I was feeling pretty good about things. The track bar doesn't need to be relocated. I'll just need to get a bit creative with the sway bar endlinks. I even had about an 1/8" of clearance at the diff cover. And then I saw this picture...


And I realized I didn't finish adjusting the caster on the upper control arms the other night so the axle will be rotating forward a bit. It's not as dramatic as it looks in the pic because the other end of the upper is also loose, but I nonetheless may run into some clearance issues with the tie rod and diff cover at full lock. I'll grind a groove into the diff cover if I need to!

Tommy

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by RYANSTULC

After wheeling hard, I discovered it's possible to shear off the TRE @ the draglink / tie-rod connection. The entire force of my ram is transferring through one TRE.

The new track-bar bracket will free up much needed room. This room will allow me to mount the ram from axle tube, directly to tie-rod.
Mucho bettero

It's not possible to design a ram assist mounting situation where you can prevent all the load from going to one TRE.

Even if you mount it to the tube and straight to the tie rod, what happens if you need to turn left and the outside of the front of the driver's side tire is against a rock?

You wind up loading that TRE with all the force from the ram and the steering gear. Just a fact of life with steering and there's no way around it.

If you switch to rod end or bulk up the components, then at some point you have to worry about the knuckle and balljoints. We've actually stretched open one of the upper holes for balljoint on the inner C doing a long recovery and dragging the jeep out by the front axle.

If you broke a TRE, I'd take another look at the quality of the parts you used and whether or not it ever came loose at any point.

[Tommy R]

UGH!

I got the pitman arm reamed, the tie rod and drag link all welded up, and then began final test fitting before removing for paint. And it was then that I realized I couldn't thread in my LH threaded tie rod end on the tie rod. It only went 3/4" in. WTH? It had threaded in fine before welding. I tried the other LH threaded tie rod and the same thing! Both RH threaded tie rods went in without issue. Something in the LH threaded inserts was affected by the welding because each has visible bungs about 3/4" in.

So now I'll try to locate a tap locally to have them cleaned out. I'm still waiting on the jam nuts anyway so I couldn't do final assembly yet, regardless. I also ordered some sway bar endlink mounts from Rusty's. They'll likely have to be modified a bit, but I think they'll make getting a sway bar installed a bit easier.