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Unread 02-28-2011, 09:53 PM   #1
RockRodHooligan
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Cons of a 231/300 doubler?

Ok, so I'm in the midst of building the drive train for my next Jeep(4.7L stroker, AW4, NP231D HD, HP44/9"), and I'm starting to question my t-case. Not because I don't think it will be strong enough, thats not the case, but because I would like to have options, lots of options. Not just 2Hi, 4Hi or 4Low, or even 2Lo in my case. I'm thinking more like: hi range, low range- 2.72:1, low range- 4:1, low range- 10.88:1, rear wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, front wheel drive.... Every since I saw that JB Conversions has the LowMax 4:1 for the Dana 300, it's got me thinking about doing a doubler. I don't like the idea of being stuck with just hi range or 4:1. I Still like my 2.72:1 for about 80% of the wheeling we do. I'll be running an AW4 so the Rubi Crawler is out of the question, and I really don't have the kind of money to swing an Altas4. So I think a 231/300 doubler would be very comparable for the money spent. Plus I can nickel and dime build it, a few hundred at a time.

I know that one of the cons is the length, but I'm looking at building about 105" wheel base, so packaging become less of an issue, even with the AW4 and 9" rear axle(low pinion), I'd think. The Dana 300 is a passenger side drop case, and they sell the clocking rings, but are they capable of being clocked close to 180*?

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Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
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Unread 02-28-2011, 11:05 PM   #2
RogueSpear2023
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Your issue is length, if you lengthen the wheelbase it is possible otherwise a doubler is not possible that wheelbase is too short. So you will have to go from looking at a stretch to actually doing it, before the doubler. Even with the doubler you are going to be limited in how much you can lift it just due the the length of the doubler. IMO I would just keep the NP231 alone, then save and go with the atlas. The 4:1 low isn't as bad as it would seem, the only place I can see a use for the 2.72:1 is if you do a lot of mud running, otherwise the 4:1 low is plenty deep.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 12:32 AM   #3
Border Dave
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Have you considered the Bronco Dana 20/Klune V combo to replace the NP231? It's almost the same length. http://www.high-impact.net/transmiss..._D20_combo.htm
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Unread 03-01-2011, 02:02 AM   #4
RockRodHooligan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueSpear2023 View Post
Your issue is length, if you lengthen the wheelbase it is possible otherwise a doubler is not possible that wheelbase is too short. So you will have to go from looking at a stretch to actually doing it, before the doubler. Even with the doubler you are going to be limited in how much you can lift it just due the the length of the doubler. IMO I would just keep the NP231 alone, then save and go with the atlas. The 4:1 low isn't as bad as it would seem, the only place I can see a use for the 2.72:1 is if you do a lot of mud running, otherwise the 4:1 low is plenty deep.
Wait.... what? Did I miss something, or did you not read my last paragraph? Last I knew, moving the rear axle back 10" and the front forward about 2"(total of 105") didn't just look like a stretch, it WAS a stretch. There isn't too much further back I can go, I'm already looking at an inverted departure angle. Even with the AW4, doubler, 9", tummy tuck, and 4" of lift, I couldn't have THAT bad of driveline angles especially compared to a normal TJ with a 4" lift, and no stretch.

I've wheeled with Rubis before, and I'm always watching them bounce off their rev limiters trying to do any sort of climb, that would normally just take me feathering the throttle with 2.72. I was vertical a lot on my XJ, thus the reason I'm building a long wheelbase to start with, I climb a lot of stuff. I like my 2.72:1, as much as I hate mud, I live in Indiana, it's inevitable, you need a little wheel speed some times, and the guys with 4:1 always have to switch to 4Hi to get it. Like I said, 2.72:1 works great for me most of the time, it's rare thatI wish I had deeper gearing. But for what I do, and what I see of the guys with 4:1, I can say I would want shallower gearing a LOT more an I want deeper gearing with 2.72. 10.88:1 would almost never be used.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
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Unread 03-01-2011, 06:18 AM   #5
balzer
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I cant seam to find a straight answer on length of that combo. I see anywhere from 1" longer than a 231 to 7-8" longer.
My biggest concern would be supporting the heavy 300 on the alum 231 case, sounds like a weak spot.

Gearing, or the lack of, is something I can relate to. I used to wheel older GMs with sm465 trans that has deep first gear, then I had a 97 with a 5 speed and a shallow first gear. I had to use low a lot more often in the 97.
seamed like the 97 never really had a sweet spot in gearing. Maybe a better way to say it is, I was always hunting for a good gear combination.

I have come to like auto transmissions now but its still an issue.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 06:41 AM   #6
Unlimited04
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the ultimate length depends what crawl box conversion you end up using. a Klune is basically the same thing, and a good bit shorter. it also depends what SYE you go with...obviously the SS SYE is shorter.

I looked into it as well, and it's a lot of work. I wanted to do a NP231/NV241OR doubler, which I thought would be cool & beefy. if you're willing to do all the work, more power to you. you'll need a flip kit for the D300...cause you need to move it to drivers side drop, and you need to relocate all the linkages. Then if you add your Lo-Max conversion, it gets even more costly and work intensive.

honestly, I think it would be easier to go Klune-V. Less work, and more "bolt-up". Watch the classifieds on Pirate, they do come up once in a while if you don't want to pay new price. Either way you need to add a secondary t-case mount to support the added load.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 06:46 AM   #7
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Did you price out the 231/300 build? I know you can build it a few hundred at a time but what is the TOTAL cost of that build with all new seals and bearings etc... and how much less is will that be than an Atlas 4? When you do a side by side cost comparison are you saving enough cash to make it worth the headaches and hassles of all the modifications of cutting the floor, building cross members, running shift levers and linkage verses basically just bolting in the Atlas?
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:38 AM   #8
Tyler99TJ
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The doubler is an inch shorter than a NV231 with a slip yoke. The stretch will give you enough room to keep your angles within reason. I am looking at doing this for the same reasons you are. I am planning on buying parts this year and installing it over the winter. There is some good info on Pirate, but the guy that was selling the kits is not a great comunicator and only sells on ebay now. The kits about $500 and then another ~$500 to get everything running. I am guessing about $1000 total to be up and running.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #9
RockRodHooligan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balzer View Post
I cant seam to find a straight answer on length of that combo. I see anywhere from 1" longer than a 231 to 7-8" longer.
My biggest concern would be supporting the heavy 300 on the alum 231 case, sounds like a weak spot.
I've talked with a guy over on Pirate that has one, he said his was ~1" longer than a 231 w/SYE give or take. After stretching the rear 10" I can live with that.

I'll have to look into any support issues, but I haven't heard of any yet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
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Unread 03-01-2011, 09:10 PM   #10
RockRodHooligan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
the ultimate length depends what crawl box conversion you end up using. a Klune is basically the same thing, and a good bit shorter. it also depends what SYE you go with...obviously the SS SYE is shorter.
A S/S SYE isn't an option with the 300, just a 32 spline output upgrade, they already come with a fixed yoke.

Quote:
I looked into it as well, and it's a lot of work. I wanted to do a NP231/NV241OR doubler, which I thought would be cool & beefy. if you're willing to do all the work, more power to you. you'll need a flip kit for the D300...cause you need to move it to drivers side drop, and you need to relocate all the linkages. Then if you add your Lo-Max conversion, it gets even more costly and work intensive.
Work intensive isn't as big of a deal, I have a lot of free time at work, that I can do the disassembly/rebuild/assembly, and since I work for a parts store, bearings and seals are cheap and easy to come by. Mounts, linkage, etc is going to be different for me anyway by me using the AW4, and easily accommodated, since I will be making my own flat skid.

Quote:
honestly, I think it would be easier to go Klune-V. Less work, and more "bolt-up". Watch the classifieds on Pirate, they do come up once in a while if you don't want to pay new price. Either way you need to add a secondary t-case mount to support the added load.
I'm sure the Klune-V is nice, for damned near $1700 it had better be! I could build a 300 with 32 spline front and rear output shafts, clocked, with twin sticks for about $1500 maybe another $100 for bearings and seals, the LoMax is on sale for $450 right now, and everything else is a given if I do a 300. Spend another $500 for the 231 doubler, and I'm done.

Yeah I could get the Klune-V and mate it to my 231D HD, but $1700 is too much to dump into a 231, even one built as much as mine is. I may have 2Lo, but it's no twin stick, and I'm still stuck with the stock front output, and limited to 1310 front. With the 44 front, I could really go 1330 if I had the provisions to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
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Unread 03-01-2011, 09:47 PM   #11
RockRodHooligan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkwfxd View Post
Did you price out the 231/300 build? I know you can build it a few hundred at a time but what is the TOTAL cost of that build with all new seals and bearings etc... and how much less is will that be than an Atlas 4? When you do a side by side cost comparison are you saving enough cash to make it worth the headaches and hassles of all the modifications of cutting the floor, building cross members, running shift levers and linkage verses basically just bolting in the Atlas?
231/Dana 300 doubler- 2.72:1, 4:1, 10.88:1, twin sticks, 23 spline f/r outputs: Maybe about $2400
Klune-V/231D HD(my current t-case)- 4:1, 2.72:1, 10.88:1, 2Low, wide chain, 6 pinion planetary, S/S SYE: $1700 on top of what I already have in the 231: Maybe $2500
Klune-V/Dana 300- 2.62:1, 4:1, 10.48:1, twin sticks, 23 spline f/r outputs: About $3150
Atlas4: About $3500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
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