[Unlimited04]

Originally Posted by tweenerlj

The build you quote is quite different than what Jeff will be doing. cmoore modified the grill and I believe that Jeff will be using a factory CJ grill and incorporating a custom hood/fenders to transition to the TJ tub.

I get all that. It'll look similar, because it's a similar idea. And knowing Jeff's skills, I look forward to the detailed progress pics.

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by Unlimited04

cmoore did this on his TJ a little over 2 years ago, and it turned out awesome.
Thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/pu...ill-tj-940581/

After following your builds and being amazed at your skills, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Thank you very much.

I'm familiar with cmoore's project, he did a very nice job, but it's very different from what I'm doing.

Originally Posted by tweenerlj

The build you quote is quite different than what Jeff will be doing. cmoore modified the grill and I believe that Jeff will be using a factory CJ grill and incorporating a custom hood/fenders to transition to the TJ tub.

Exactly. I'll be using an unmodified factory CJ grille (except for a little minor trimming at the bottom to clear the TJ's frame rails and power steering lines) and an unmodified factory TJ tub, and building a custom hood and set of fenders to blend all the curves and lines so it looks like it was built at the factory.

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by Unlimited04

I get all that. It'll look similar, because it's a similar idea. And knowing Jeff's skills, I look forward to the detailed progress pics.

To me it won't look similar, the unmodified factory CJ grille on my project will look very different than cmoore's modified/widened grille. Also my project will have a "CJ" hood and fenders, for a mostly factory CJ look to the entire front clip.

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by Deuskid

Jeff, your work is masterful, I learn much from each of your projects.

Looking forward to following along.

John

Thanks John! Glad you're following along .

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by mike_dippert

Since this will inevitably end up being another 1000 post thread. I'm requesting you put updates in the first post, or links to the update posts in your first post. I loose all interest when there's 5 pages of new posts in a day, and none of them are an update from you.

To me, the comments and suggestions that everyone posts are just as important as anything I post - I very often add a feature or start a new "side project" because of input from people in this thread. The great part of this forum is all the discussion that happens along the way in the project, and how much that influences what I'm building and how I'm building it.

I don't really have time to maintain an index to the detail in my threads, I already spend a lot of time taking photos and writing posts. But if someone wants to maintain an index to this (or any other of my threads), it would be great, they can do a post in the thread with an index and I'll link to it in post #1 of the thread.

I'm working on a detailed project post and photos for later today BTW...

[armyRN]

This should be interesting. I've enjoyed following the "how it's done" parts of these projects. Makes me appreciate more what goes into taking something from an idea to a finished product.

[Bobs85Reny]

This is going to be a Great Build Thread! Your mad skills and attention to detail without hacking is just amazing! This is one I have been looking forward to see! I bought an LJ for the same reason. I always loved the scrambler but needed the comforts of a DD. I love my cj7 and have kept it all stock for the last 27 years. Many times I wish I had bought an 8 instead but I would never part with my 7. My goal is to make a retro modern scrambler from my LJ without hacking it apart. I am pulling up a chair for this one!

[MCDavis]

Sounds like the start of a great project! I plan to keep an eye on it like I have your other builds!

[fratis]

-im sure youve made notes of this already but thought id chime in a bit.

-you will have to make some jumpers that adapt and lengthen the wire for the turn signals.

-when i notched for the frame i welded half sections of pipe into the original grill that go around the frame. if you leave it as a simple notch it will look a bit unfactory.

-examine the non-oem parts vary carefully. i used an original grill and it looks great. was hard to source hood and fenders so those were aftermarket. was not pleased with those items at all. they were close but not quite right.

-my yj fiberglass hood had a very noticeable divergence in it about 6 inches from the leading edge. that really bothered me. hoping the cj unit doesnt have this. every fiberglass product ive used was never quite right. seems like quality control was lacking a bit.

-was quite a bit of notching for the steering gear box. had to weld in some support pieces to keep things square.

-thinking the hardest part of making this bolt-on and reversible will be the center mounting point of the grill. maybe a sub-bracket. i had to rework the mount itself as it needed to be at a different level and moved slightly front-to-back.

-the hood to grill overhang is 3/4."

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by fratis

-im sure youve made notes of this already but thought id chime in a bit.

-you will have to make some jumpers that adapt and lengthen the wire for the turn signals.

-when i notched for the frame i welded half sections of pipe into the original grill that go around the frame. if you leave it as a simple notch it will look a bit unfactory.

-examine the non-oem parts vary carefully. i used an original grill and it looks great. was hard to source hood and fenders so those were aftermarket. was not pleased with those items at all. they were close but not quite right.

-my yj fiberglass hood had a very noticeable divergence in it about 6 inches from the leading edge. that really bothered me. hoping the cj unit doesnt have this. every fiberglass product ive used was never quite right. seems like quality control was lacking a bit.

-was quite a bit of notching for the steering gear box. had to weld in some support pieces to keep things square.

-thinking the hardest part of making this bolt-on and reversible will be the center mounting point of the grill. maybe a sub-bracket. i had to rework the mount itself as it needed to be at a different level and moved slightly front-to-back.

-the hood to grill overhang is 3/4."

Thanks for the input, all good points, and they're covered in my design and plan for the project.

Unlike putting a CJ grille on a YJ, which can directly use a factory or aftermarket CJ hood and fenders, doing this on the TJ/LJ cannot, so I'll be making custom parts.

For the hood, I'll be making a mold master by cutting and sectioning a factory TJ hood and two factory CJ hoods (to get the extra length required). Once I've got a metal master completed, I'll make a mold of it and then make a fiberglass hood.

For the fenders, I am going to start with a pair of aftermarket CJ fiberglass fenders; I've got both metal and fiberglass CJ fenders here, but for the modifications I plan to make to them, working in fiberglass will be easier. Once I modify the fiberglass fenders as necessary, I'll make molds of them so I can make new fiberglass ones to my design. The aftermarket fenders I have do have a couple of flaws, but I'll fix them in the process of doing the modifications.

So far I've been pretty satisfied with the results of my at-home fiberglass molds and parts, here's a few photos of fiberglass parts I've made:

Fiberglass fender for my fiberglass Jeep-tub trailer kit...



Custom fiberglass hardtop for my LJ and the fiberglass trailer:




I agree with you about the quality of many aftermarket fiberglass parts!

[jscherb]

Originally Posted by Bobs85Reny

...My goal is to make a retro modern scrambler from my LJ without hacking it apart. I am pulling up a chair for this one!

That's my goal too... the Safari Cab hardtop already has "retro" styling, and the CJ grille conversion kit will complete the look. A Jeep with all the modern amenities but styled like something from the 60's-80's... and all bolt-on, no hacking

[jscherb]

To set the stage for what's involved in this project, here's a list of the design issues to be solved when trying to adapt a CJ front clip to a TJ... there are quite a few differences to address if you want everything to have a "factory fit":

1. The TJ cowl has a raised section in the center, which the CJ hood does not have:



2. The shape of the TJ tub vs. the shape of the back of the CJ hood - the radius on the corner of the TJ tub is much sharper than the CJ:



3. The side of the TJ hood as a raised accent line, which matches a raised line on the side of the cowl. The CJ hood does not have this accent line, so it wouldn't match up to the cowl.



4. The CJ hood and fenders are about 2" inches shorter than the TJ parts, so if you just bolt up the CJ parts to the TJ you'd have less room in the engine compartment and may have fan/radiator clearance issues.



5. The spacing of the hood hinges is different although that's a minor detail compared to the above. I do have a design for a way to change the spacing of the hinges to match the CJ hinge spacing without requiring drilling new holes in the TJ tub.

6. The TJ makes a lot of use of the inner fenders for mounting engine bay accessories, so if you just bolt up CJ inner fenders to your TJ, it would be a challenge to mount all the TJ accessories on the CJ inner fenders.

7. Flares are also a challenge - if you run CJ front flares, there are no good matching rear flares that fit the larger Wrangler rear wheel openings. If you try to run TJ flares, the ridge around the wheel well on the CJ front fenders prevents the TJ flare from fitting well; also the front of the TJ flare has a much sharper radius than the CJ fender, so they don't look good together. I have a solution for the flare issue; more about that later in the project.

Summary: factory CJ front end sheet metal is a very poor fit to the TJ tub. Every attempt I've seen so far to put a CJ grille and front sheet metal on a TJ doesn't address all of these differences; I will be addressing every one of them in this project.

[jscherb]

Here's a drawing showing the main style features of the hood design. It's basically a CJ hood, with a few differences:

- It's 2" longer than a stock CJ hood to keep the engine compartment length at the stock TJ length.
- The radius at the rear corners is sharper to match the TJ tub radius.
- It's got a body accent line down the side to match the accent line on the side of the TJ tub.
- Hinge spacing is wider to match the CJ spacing and body lines on the hood.
- For this drawing I've used TJ latches, but CJ latches could also be used.



Also there's a new cowl panel (which is removable on the TJ), which eliminates the center hump of the stock TJ. The vent grille on the cowl can be either the TJ "embedded" style, or a "bolt-on" CJ vent grille.

[PWMjeep]

Well, first off, I have to say that I am a fan of your work Jeff, I have an Exogate on my Jeep. I also tend to lean towards keeping it looking factory, even if modified to a superior level. I like when people can't tell that something has been changed from OEM. I am in the group, small on this forum maybe, that likes a capable Jeep, that doesn't appear as if it has a 6 inch lift and 35" tires. I do appreciate the over the top vehicles, just not me. So, that said, if this can be done, but appear as if nothing has been done (to the non Jeep experts) then this seems like a pretty cool idea.

I just always think of what all of those folks did in 1964 to the 1963 Split Window Corvettes.....cut the body out from between the window and replaced it with '64 glass.....they have since regretted this.
Sure, not '63 Vettes we are talking about, but you get the idea.

Looking forward to seeing this Jeff. Best of luck on another interesting project.

I actually really like the look of this one by JTS-Rubicon.
Very nicely done. Clean, looks good.

Originally Posted by JTS-Rubicon

awesome job on the grill, looks sick, I'd pay for that!!

anyway here are my fenders...

[Line58]

Great decision for a new project! If these come out well (based on your previous work I have no doubt they will) and hit the market at a reasonable price I'd be interested in running them! I'll certainly be following this thread!

Why do you plan to use TJ hood latches instead of CJ ones?