Chrysler is paying to install a new cam (2005/2006 owners should read this) - Page 87 - JeepForum.com
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post #1291 of 1818 Old 12-12-2010, 04:03 PM
willydigger
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Now imagine the amount of drag put on the shaft and gear to create enough heat to discolor the metal like that. As far as it turning smoothly, put it in the oven for about 30 minutes at 200F and once its nice and heat soaked and the metals have expanded take it out (with a big thick glove) and try spinning the shaft. It will have a decent amount of drag on it.

When I did this I was surprised at the level of drag it had once it was hot and had no lubrication.
FOG
It was great to see a used unit up close. It makes me regret going to the dealership with my first OPDA.

If there is anyone out there with a bad one, take some shots and post up.

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post #1292 of 1818 Old 12-12-2010, 07:36 PM
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One more question and then I think that I am done. Would you direct me to the correct tap for the Grainger
2pa82 grease fitting? This grease fitting has a thread type of SAE-LT and none of the taps that I am looking at have this type of thread listed. I am finding the 1/4-28 bottom taps, but all have a thread type of NC/UNC.

I should have taken shop class.....

Thanks again.....
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post #1293 of 1818 Old 12-12-2010, 07:54 PM
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I still don't think I've seen an opinion on the slop in my old OPDA with the Crown gear. Is it too much, or do you guys think I can keep it as a back-up?
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post #1294 of 1818 Old 12-12-2010, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RockyMnt1 View Post
One more question and then I think that I am done. Would you direct me to the correct tap for the Grainger
2pa82 grease fitting?
Actually you want the 2PA91 grease fitting its a 1/4" x 28 parallel thread which means it has no taper. The proper tap for a parallel thread is a 2LWL8 "bottoming" tap. The parallel threads have no taper and have the advantage of being stronger and also hard to booger up when running the tap in.

FOG

In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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post #1295 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JBWood05TJ View Post
I still don't think I've seen an opinion on the slop in my old OPDA with the Crown gear. Is it too much, or do you guys think I can keep it as a back-up?
You'll have to be the judge. If it isn't the same as stock I wouldn't put it in. If you are in a jam and have to use it, it might work.
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post #1296 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Actually you want the 2PA91 grease fitting its a 1/4" x 28 parallel thread which means it has no taper. The proper tap for a parallel thread is a 2LWL8 "bottoming" tap. The parallel threads have no taper and have the advantage of being stronger and also hard to booger up when running the tap in.

FOG
I just double-checked my zerk. It is tapered. I don't see a long shaft Non-tapered option. What I did was tap the hole using a bottom tap and then installed the tapered zerk. The 1/4-28 is a fine thread. While technically not as strong as a parallel, I don't expect any problems.

On my first mod, I tapped the hole a little too high. It was tight to fit the grease fitting on the zerk. In addition, prior to drilling a hole in the bushing I tried to pump in grease to see if there was an orifice from the factory. The grease pressure was high and the zerk was in a bad spot. I managed to remove the grease gun fitting with no issues. It will be plenty strong for this application.

I've made two other OPDA mods with the long shank. The install was in a better location allowing easy access to the grease gun.
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post #1297 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 10:36 AM
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I didn't realize that this zerk was tapered. I knew that I didn't want that feature. Thanks for the info, Fog!!!
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post #1298 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Now imagine the amount of drag put on the shaft and gear to create enough heat to discolor the metal like that. As far as it turning smoothly, put it in the oven for about 30 minutes at 200F and once its nice and heat soaked and the metals have expanded take it out (with a big thick glove) and try spinning the shaft. It will have a decent amount of drag on it.

When I did this I was surprised at the level of drag it had once it was hot and had no lubrication.


FOG
Great test FOG!

I just finished reading this whole thread. Whew, it was like reading a novel. It took me two days of reading and taking notes all along as well as a little research on my own.

I want to thank everyone who has contributed in this thread for everything from their comments to continual testing, research and development.

I am going to be pulling out my OPDA soon to inspect. My Jeep has a Feb. 05 build date as well as motor build date of Feb 05. The 7th digit in the VIN (from right) is a P and she has 49K on the clock. I am the second owner and have been running Castrol GTX 10-40. I currently have no symptoms but after reading thread, many concerns.
Upon removal and inspection I will take some photos and start documenting my progress. Of course depending on what I find. I most likely will be replacing the helical drive gear, polishing shaft if necessary and doing the zerk retrofit mod as Fog has mentioned all along, including making sure there is a passage for the grease to take to migrate to the rotating shaft within the upper bushing itself.
Again all depending on what I find, I may also be changing to the Valvoline VR-1 10-30 and possibly a ZDDP additive as well.

I have a few things I would like to mention that I didn't see addressed in the thread. First, for the not so experienced or mechanically inclined. Please use caution when working with aluminum, for the most part is an extremely soft material, when threading it with a tap for zerk ftg. installation, be careful not to strip out the threads or cross thread the hole. It is almost like butter compared to other materials. (just looking out for the less experienced).

In regards to the original hole in the OPDA where the mfr. was to have filled with grease for lubrication of the top bushing. If you remove the cap/cover from the hole and inspect as well as clean out old grease before the reinstallation of your modified unit, then you can thread the hole and insert plug(grub screw) as FOG recommended. I see it to be beneficial to do this, it allows us to have a clean out for the older grease as you pump the new grease into the unit. We actually have motor bearings at work on some of our older equipment that has this feature and it actually allows for the old grease to flow out of the hole while adding in new grease. I know that most folks will probably just add a pump of grease every thousand miles or so, but I am sure there are guys that are going to be removing their OPDA every once in a while for inspection and at that time they can remove the plug and purge out any old grease from the bushing. It is just a thought. I am sure the access for the grub screw will be in too tight of an area to do this while the OPDA is installed.

Also, once zerk is greased, the (should be) ongoing lubrication is accomplished by the heat generated causing the existing grease in the cavity to heat up and wick its way to the rotating shaft inside the upper bushing. I know it was mentioned before, but I just wanted to touch on it again. I wasn't sure everyone caught that because after reading some of the comments in prior pages it seemed like there may be folks that think the grease in the cavity is constantly under pressure and feeding to the rotating element(shaft). Only time there is pressure present, is when the grease is first applied to the zerk ftg. on the modified OPDA.
Just a thought, but it may be possible to install a tubing ftg. instead of a plug and a piece of tubing could be routed out to access where its more convenient, along with a cap to seal the tube. This may allow it to be used as a clean out while lubing the bushing zerk ftg. while engine is running. (Still thinking about this).

Anyhow, I just wanted again to thank all participants and throw in my

Whatever I decide to do, I will document and submit when completed.

Rich G. 2005 Wrangler 4.0 6-Speed.
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post #1299 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Here are some recent photos of a used OPDA shaft with aprox. 50K miles. Notice the heat discoloration on the upper bushing area. The unit had not failed, but showed gear teeth wear. It actually spun smooth in spite of the damage to the shaft.


Below are the score marks from the lower bushing.


Overall shaft.

This Shaft looks exactly like my old one. While everyone is so focused on the top bushing....it still seems to me that the bigger problem is with the bottom bushing. Putting in the grease zerk modification for the top bushing is great, but the groove modification for the bottom bushing is being ignored. I think that is the bigger issue with the 05-06 OPDA. All of the used pre 05 shafts that I inspected looked great.

And all of the talk about what oil is working etc, etc....Does anyone have hard evidence of this? If anyone has really tested the new grease zerk setup and new oil, how many miles have this setup been run? Any pictures? Sorry if I come across sounding like a prick, but a lot of what is being said in thread has no data, evidence, or pictures of gear wear after the modification. Also, I really want to thank everyone for participating in the thread. It has been very helpful.
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post #1300 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
This Shaft looks exactly like my old one. While everyone is so focused on the top bushing....it still seems to me that the bigger problem is with the bottom bushing. Putting in the grease zerk modification for the top bushing is great, but the groove modification for the bottom bushing is being ignored. I think that is the bigger issue with the 05-06 OPDA. All of the used pre 05 shafts that I inspected looked great.

And all of the talk about what oil is working etc, etc....Does anyone have hard evidence of this? If anyone has really tested the new grease zerk setup and new oil, how many miles have this setup been run? Any pictures? Sorry if I come across sounding like a prick, but a lot of what is being said in thread has no data, evidence, or pictures of gear wear after the modification. Also, I really want to thank everyone for participating in the thread. It has been very helpful.
I have no current data. Most will not, since we are taking a leap of faith. My logic is there is no harm in doing it. It won't make it worse.

I will update pics after a few thousand miles. Also with pizzle and tufmar there are before shots of the shaft. They may be able to provide after images in a while. It will take a long time to generate another 20-50K.

Getting a groove cut in the shaft is a little more difficult. If you can find a shop that can do, I don't think that mod will hurt either.
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post #1301 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
And all of the talk about what oil is working etc, etc....Does anyone have hard evidence of this? If anyone has really tested the new grease zerk setup and new oil, how many miles have this setup been run? Any pictures? Sorry if I come across sounding like a prick, but a lot of what is being said in thread has no data, evidence, or pictures of gear wear after the modification.
I guess ya didn't read back a few pages where I detailed information from a OPDA that had 20K miles on it after adding a ZERK and switching to Mobil One 5W-40.

In a nutshell one of my friends I fixed a OPDA put 20K miles on it. When I rebuilt the OPDA for him I polished the shaft smooth with very fine sandpaper. He recently brought it by for me to pull it and check for gear wear. We found zero wear on the gear and the shaft in the OPDA didn't have any of the circular scuffing on the bottom or top of the shaft as seen before.

I've done a good bit of testing on several gears, oils and even greases and you would have seen all the details of my testing and results if you had read over the last 8-10 pages.

BTW I highly recommend this book to help you along with your OPDA.


FOG

In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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post #1302 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 04:19 PM
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Ah, the kinder, gentler method! It works most of the time, but when all else fails:
Amazon.com: The Illustrated Art of War (9780195189995): Sun Tzu, Samuel B. Griffith: Books

FOG - Having read this entire thread, some parts many times, you and willydigger have done an excellent job documenting THE FOG MOD. Everyone needs at least one "memorial".
I have read, IIRC you are going to grad school, worked on this mod, done it for many friends in TX., spent many hours writing the responses on this and many other threads, and worked with a machinist (relative IIRC). Obviously you are a very caring and helpful person. What does TheFOG handle stand for and what are you studying in school?

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post #1303 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
You'll have to be the judge. If it isn't the same as stock I wouldn't put it in. If you are in a jam and have to use it, it might work.
Yeah, that's my problem. I didn't think to check this before switching the stock gear. But after I got it back together and took out the new full unit, I noticed that the new one had a lot less play. But given that the Crown gear is the same dimensionally as the gear that I removed from the old unit, I don't see how it could be any different. The old unit is a Rev.B while the new unit is of course a Rev.E. I wonder if this is one of the things that changed between Revs?
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post #1304 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffjeep1 View Post
I have read, IIRC you are going to grad school, worked on this mod, done it for many friends in TX., spent many hours writing the responses on this and many other threads, and worked with a machinist (relative IIRC). Obviously you are a very caring and helpful person. What does TheFOG handle stand for and what are you studying in school?
Back when I was 12 I got into ham radio and just out of random luck the FCC issued me a call sign with the last three letters FOG. Ever since then its been kinda a nick name. As far as school I've got a degree in criminal justice and a degree in biology with emphasis on life sciences with a declared minor in chemistry. I'm stopping with just a 4 year in CJ but going for a masters in Biology. I'm kinda one of those obsessive people that takes 20hrs a semester. I wouldn't say caring and helpful more like obsessive and compulsive

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBWood05TJ View Post
I don't see how it could be any different. The old unit is a Rev.B while the new unit is of course a Rev.E. I wonder if this is one of the things that changed between Revs?
JB what I would do is measure from the very tip of the slotted end of the shaft where it goes into the oil pump to the very top of the gear. Then take the same measurement from your other OPDA and if they are no more than 1/8 off I would say your good to go.


FOG

In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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post #1305 of 1818 Old 12-13-2010, 09:47 PM
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JB what I would do is measure from the very tip of the slotted end of the shaft where it goes into the oil pump to the very top of the gear. Then take the same measurement from your other OPDA and if they are no more than 1/8 off I would say your good to go.


FOG
LOL. I would rather stick a fork in my eye than pull that new OPDA and have to deal with that bracket/bolt fiasco that holds the darn to the block.

However, I did look at the two side-by-side and I do know the difference is not more than 1/8". Thanks Fog.
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