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Unread 12-11-2010, 01:20 AM   #1261
keithert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
As long as your with-in 15 degrees your not going to suffer any ill effects in mileage or engine performance. The reason for this is because as long as your with-in that 15 degrees the computer can compensate without a problem.

Actually the camshaft position sensor is really only needed at start up for the first few seconds. Once the engine is running you can unplug the CPS and the engine will keep running because it already realized where the camshaft is in relation to the crankshaft. Now once you turn the engine off your not going to be able to restart till you plug the Cam position sensor back in so the computer can re-learn the cam position.

What happens when you start the engine is it watches the crank position sensor on the bell housing while watching the cam position sensor in the OPDA. As it sees a certain point in the crank sensor it knows it should also be seeing the same in the cam sensor. If it just saw that point from the cam sensor or sees it just shortly after that it realizes that the cam sensor is slightly off and adjusts for that. The only requirement for this to work is the cam sensor has to be with-in 15 degrees.

If it exceeds 15 degrees the computer will throw a code saying the CPS relationship is beyond limits.

So if your not throwing a code your with-in 15 degrees and the computer is compensating like it should.



FOG
Very interesting. Where did you learn this stuff!

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Unread 12-11-2010, 02:29 AM   #1262
jeffjeep1
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Now once you turn the engine off your not going to be able to restart till you plug the Cam position sensor back in so the computer can re-learn the cam position.FOG
Additional "anti-theft"? Could be used like a manual Sentry Key? If unplugged while driving to destination, one would not even have to open the hood until departure.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 07:54 AM   #1263
bacon225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Both of my OPDA's always had a slight vibration with the rattle or clicking noise you describe. Next time your under the hood put your hand on the OPDA and rev the engine a bit and it should smooth out to just a slight vibration.

The reason for the click or vibration at idle is the cam turns half the speed of the crankshaft so when your idling at 700RPM the OPDA is only spinning at 300RPM. Because its slow speed your able to feel the pulsation.

This RPM reduction is why we can get away with just a zerk fitting and grease because even at highway speeds the most its seeing is 1200-1500 RPMS.

JBWood, I'm up in Houston all the time between going to UHD and work so will have to meet for a beer sometime.


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Unread 12-11-2010, 03:15 PM   #1264
JBWood05TJ
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What ****ing asshat engineer came up with this bolt and bracket arrangement for holding the OPDA unit to the ****ing engine block?!?!?!?
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Unread 12-11-2010, 03:39 PM   #1265
tufmar
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Originally Posted by JBWood05TJ View Post
What ****ing asshat engineer came up with this bolt and bracket arrangement for holding the OPDA unit to the ****ing engine block?!?!?!?
Hahaha, I literally just got done installing my (Willydigger modded) OPDA and ran into the same problem so I feel your pain. So true though, that took the most time out of everything. I kept dropping the d@mn bracket into the motor mount every time, not to mention you can barely get a couple clicks on a wrench to tighten or loosen. I kept thinking the L shaped tab would sit flush vs sitting on the block itself.

The good news is...everything is buttoned back up and no check engine light! I did set the engine to TDC which made the re-installation of the new OPDA much easier.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 04:16 PM   #1266
TheFog
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I know what you guys mean. I've lost count how many times I've either dropped the clip or the bolt and had it wedge in the motor mount. I don't think having fingers that are ate up with rheumatoid arthritis makes it any easier either LOL.

BTW I did some more research on the grease and found once better than the MobilGrease 28. There is nothing "wrong" with the MobilGrease except its uses a clay based "soap" which will can gel up when mixed with a lithium soap based grease.

So after doing a bit of looking around I found a comparable aviation grease that is lithium soap based called AeroShell 33MS. Its about $13 a tube and you can order it from Aircraftspruce.com.

After reading more about it, its actually a better grease. It has 5% molybdenum sulfide AKA Moly in it which will protect the bushing longer and better than just a normal oil based grease.

Also for those of you with Warn winches the speced grease was Aeroshell 17 but its been discontinued. But AeroShell 33MS is a replacement and actually a better grease than the AeroShell 17. The only issue is you have to thoroughly clean out all the old AeroShell 17 because like the MobilGrease its a clay based soap. So if you haven't regreased your planetary in your Warn winch in the last two years its time to.

Also because the AeroShell 33MS has a high amount of Moly its great for parts that tend to wear pretty bad.

EDIT: Actually the FAA did a study on this very thing and found that mixing Aeroshell and Mobilgrease didn't cause any problems. FAA NTSB Power Point Report


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Unread 12-11-2010, 04:18 PM   #1267
JBWood05TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tufmar View Post
Hahaha, I literally just got done installing my (Willydigger modded) OPDA and ran into the same problem so I feel your pain. So true though, that took the most time out of everything. I kept dropping the d@mn bracket into the motor mount every time, not to mention you can barely get a couple clicks on a wrench to tighten or loosen. I kept thinking the L shaped tab would sit flush vs sitting on the block itself.

The good news is...everything is buttoned back up and no check engine light! I did set the engine to TDC which made the re-installation of the new OPDA much easier.
Great googly moogly that was a *****. That bracket has to defy gravity in order to line the damned bolt hole in the bracket with the threaded hole in the block! No kidding, I fought it for well over an hour, and must have put the bracket in there 200 times before I finally got it. But now I have a brand new unit with a fresh FOG Mod and no check engine light! Willydigger's step-by-step pictorial was invaluable in the modification of the OPDA. Made it so easy even a knucklehead like me could do it.

Tomorrow I'll change the oil and add the ZDDP Plus and I should be GTG.

One thing that was a bit odd. As was suggested, I performed the mod to my old OPDA first, just to make sure that I didn't have to sort out any problems on the new one. I bought the Crown gear to put on it, which has the hole for the roll pin on only one side, so you have to fit the gear and line the one hole it has with the hole in the shaft, and then drill through the other hole. The one hole on the Crown gear is in the same spot along the axis as the holes in the old gear. But when I had the new gear installed, there has to be 1/8", maybe 5/32" of up and down play in the shaft. Did I miss something along the way? The new unit has maybe 1/16", maybe less of play.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 04:50 PM   #1268
TheFog
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Originally Posted by JBWood05TJ View Post
Tomorrow I'll change the oil and add the ZDDP Plus and I should be GTG.
Instead of using the ZDDP plus, just use a good high ZDDP oil like Mobil One 5W-40 or Rotella T6 5W-40. Or if you have a case of ZDDP Plus just make sure its going in a ACEA rated oil.

You would be surprised if you saw how broad the API SM rating guide lines are when compared to the ACEA. This is the reason the Europeans created the ACEA requirement at the behest of BMW, Porsche, and Benz because of the crap oil on the market that was getting the API SM rating.


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Unread 12-11-2010, 05:36 PM   #1269
rubycorn
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Hey everyone. Back in July I bought my first jeep (06 rubi). Shortly thereafter I found this thread and my heart dropped. So i brought the rubicon to my local auto shop (not just any auto shop, this guy is super dependable and has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years) and rather than pulling the unit out he just measured the slack in the gears as being 7 degrees. He told me this is totally normal and not worth worrying about. Well I just out of curiosity clicked this thread again and once again I'm stressing out! Next weekend I'll try my hand at pulling the unit. I've never worked on cars but I'm pretty mechanically inclined. If I do find wear, however, I am not sure that I'd be comfortable in fixing the problem. Does anyone here know of a reliable shop in the Jersey Shore area that I could bring it to? Ive spent a while reading through the threads but if someone has a quick link the pages on how to check the sensor and how to replace it I'd appreciate it. If not I'll find it. Additionally, is there any known source of supply for replacements? I've seen posts that say yes and others that say no.

Thank you all for your help and information. I love my Jeep to death and just want to keep it in good health!
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Unread 12-11-2010, 05:50 PM   #1270
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Originally Posted by rubycorn View Post
Hey everyone. Back in July I bought my first jeep (06 rubi). Shortly thereafter I found this thread and my heart dropped. So i brought the rubicon to my local auto shop (not just any auto shop, this guy is super dependable and has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years) and rather than pulling the unit out he just measured the slack in the gears as being 7 degrees. He told me this is totally normal and not worth worrying about. Well I just out of curiosity clicked this thread again and once again I'm stressing out! Next weekend I'll try my hand at pulling the unit. I've never worked on cars but I'm pretty mechanically inclined. If I do find wear, however, I am not sure that I'd be comfortable in fixing the problem. Does anyone here know of a reliable shop in the Jersey Shore area that I could bring it to? Ive spent a while reading through the threads but if someone has a quick link the pages on how to check the sensor and how to replace it I'd appreciate it. If not I'll find it. Additionally, is there any known source of supply for replacements? I've seen posts that say yes and others that say no.

Thank you all for your help and information. I love my Jeep to death and just want to keep it in good health!
I sent you a PM.

Do you know the oil history and how many miles are on the unit?

In my experience I have no problems securing OPDA's. I got one through the dealer and another at Mopar-wholesale.com. I'll update this post in a minute with links that hopefully will point you in the right direction with inspection and mods. I would trust FOG's comments on greases.

EDIT: From page 65. Removal.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10423830

From page 80. Modification.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10559723

From page 68. Acquisition.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10467633

Also, you will have slack/backlash in the gear when new. You have to pull it to see the wear. You need a 1/2 6-point wrench. Make sure you mark everything before loosening anything.
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Last edited by willydigger; 12-12-2010 at 05:06 PM.. Reason: Changed wrench size and point.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #1271
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tufmar View Post
Hahaha, I literally just got done installing my (Willydigger modded) OPDA and ran into the same problem so I feel your pain. So true though, that took the most time out of everything. I kept dropping the d@mn bracket into the motor mount every time, not to mention you can barely get a couple clicks on a wrench to tighten or loosen. I kept thinking the L shaped tab would sit flush vs sitting on the block itself.

The good news is...everything is buttoned back up and no check engine light! I did set the engine to TDC which made the re-installation of the new OPDA much easier.
Just a quick follow-up. How was the zerk position? Is it easy to access?
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Unread 12-11-2010, 06:21 PM   #1272
rubycorn
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Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I sent you a PM.

Do you know the oil history and how many miles are on the unit?

In my experience I have no problems securing OPDA's. I got one through the dealer and another at Mopar-wholesale.com. I'll update this post in a minute with links that hopefully will point you in the right direction with inspection and mods. I would trust FOG's comments on greases.

EDIT: From page 65. Removal.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10423830

From page 80. Modification.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10559723

From page 68. Acquisition.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ch...l#post10467633

Also, you will have slack/backlash in the gear when new. You have to pull it to see the wear. You need a 13mm wrench. Make sure you mark everything before loosening anything.

Thanks for all the info. I bought it w/ 38k and it now has 48k. Not sure about the previous owner but I change oil every 3k miles. Thank you once again.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 07:05 PM   #1273
tufmar
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Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Just a quick follow-up. How was the zerk position? Is it easy to access?
I shot it up with grease prior to install, however zerk placement is perfect. I forsee no issues with getting the gun in there.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 07:20 PM   #1274
willydigger
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Originally Posted by rubycorn View Post
Thanks for all the info. I bought it w/ 38k and it now has 48k. Not sure about the previous owner but I change oil every 3k miles. Thank you once again.
It is hard to say what type of damage you have. Pull it and if it's minimal start using a high ZDDP oil. That should prolong the failure. The upper bushing may still eventually fail, so installing a grease zerk should be considered.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 07:59 PM   #1275
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53010624AC DISTRIBTR

Link for replacement.
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