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Unread 12-09-2010, 12:24 PM   #1246
TheFog
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I recommend doing the old OPDA first in case you have a slight um bobo.

FOG

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Unread 12-09-2010, 12:48 PM   #1247
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
I recommend doing the old OPDA first in case you have a slight um bobo.

FOG
The only stipulation being the old OPDA is in good shape.

You don't have to use the flush mount. I will bring up a normal long shank zerk with the traditional nipple.
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Unread 12-09-2010, 01:15 PM   #1248
pizzle
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well, i want to use whatever is the most sturdy. I don't want to use a standard shank if there's a risk of ripping it out due to trying to push the regular fitting on it. know what i mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
The only stipulation being the old OPDA is in good shape.

You don't have to use the flush mount. I will bring up a normal long shank zerk with the traditional nipple.
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Unread 12-09-2010, 01:19 PM   #1249
willydigger
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Originally Posted by pizzle View Post
Thanks, Fog....I'm supposed to be meeting up with willydigger this weekend to perform this mod on my OPDA. I'm still on the fence as whether or not to modify my current OPDA (provided the gear wear isn't too bad) or to mod the new OPDA I bought.
FOG do you know if it is possible to modify an old OPDA that has gear damage? If you would replace the gear and lube the upper bushing, will it work?
Have you seen damage to the shaft?

The dealer took my old one so I couldn't tell.
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Unread 12-09-2010, 01:23 PM   #1250
willydigger
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Originally Posted by pizzle View Post
well, i want to use whatever is the most sturdy. I don't want to use a standard shank if there's a risk of ripping it out due to trying to push the regular fitting on it. know what i mean?
I went to the flush mount because I'm a worry wart. You'll have easy access with the long shank fitting. The threads go in a 3/16 - 1/4 of an inch which should be plenty. They are parellel threads which will hold up better. You should be okay. I have a needle fitting already for the drive shafts so I figured why not.
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Unread 12-09-2010, 01:37 PM   #1251
Sweeney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post


Its called a needle grease fitting and a adapter is just a couple of bucks.

Just be really careful with the grease needle you don't want to end up Like this guy.


FOG
For the fitting that Willy used you do not want an injector type adapter as you pictured. You want a needle or rubber tipped adapter. The 'hypodermic' type is used to pierce rubber boots to inject grease and will be damaged by the flush grease fitting.

I'm still going with engine oil. Fog, your comment about sludge clogging the line is moot. If the line is clogged oil will not be delivered to the seal to "leak". Also, sludge problem which may cause such a clog would also clog the push rods starving the valve train of oil. Plus, the use of a good oil will prevent sludging. Don't try to scare them away from my idea!!!
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Unread 12-09-2010, 01:49 PM   #1252
willydigger
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Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
For the fitting that Willy used you do not want an injector type adapter as you pictured. You want a needle or rubber tipped adapter. The 'hypodermic' type is used to pierce rubber boots to inject grease and will be damaged by the flush grease fitting.

I'm still going with engine oil. Fog, your comment about sludge clogging the line is moot. If the line is clogged oil will not be delivered to the seal to "leak". Also, sludge problem which may cause such a clog would also clog the push rods starving the valve train of oil. Plus, the use of a good oil will prevent sludging. Don't try to scare them away from my idea!!!
Post pics when you do it. I'd love to see it in action.

Also, you are correct about the needle fitting. It is not a needle in the traditional sense.

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Unread 12-09-2010, 02:45 PM   #1253
Sweeney
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Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Post pics when you do it. I'd love to see it in action.

Also, you are correct about the needle fitting. It is not a needle in the traditional sense.

Absolutely. The hold up now is the groove in the shaft... okay, I'm looking for an excuse to buy a 4th axis for my mill...

The other big hold up is TIME... where does it go?...
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Unread 12-09-2010, 11:11 PM   #1254
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
I'm still going with engine oil. Fog, your comment about sludge clogging the line is moot. If the line is clogged oil will not be delivered to the seal to "leak". Also, sludge problem which may cause such a clog would also clog the push rods starving the valve train of oil. Plus, the use of a good oil will prevent sludging. Don't try to scare them away from my idea!!!
My comment wasn't about sludge in the supply line, it was about sludge or varnish buildup in the OPDA itself causing oil pressure to build up and flow out the top.

The other issue is with actual oil flow. If you size the orifice right to deliver proper oil flow when at highway speeds it would suffer oil starvation when idling or low engine speeds. Or if you sized it for good flow at low speeds it would get more flow than the housing could ever return at highway speeds. Also the spacing between the shaft and the bushing is way too tight to have any oil "flow" IMHO.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I'm just saying that there has never been a engine that had nor needed a pressurized lubrication system on a distributor cap. I think its just inviting/risking a serious oil leak. I'm all for a better solution after all I don't get any royalties off the Fog Mod. But I just think running pressurized oil is causing more issues than it fixes.



FOG
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Unread 12-10-2010, 09:49 AM   #1255
Sweeney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
My comment wasn't about sludge in the supply line, it was about sludge or varnish buildup in the OPDA itself causing oil pressure to build up and flow out the top.

The other issue is with actual oil flow. If you size the orifice right to deliver proper oil flow when at highway speeds it would suffer oil starvation when idling or low engine speeds. Or if you sized it for good flow at low speeds it would get more flow than the housing could ever return at highway speeds. Also the spacing between the shaft and the bushing is way too tight to have any oil "flow" IMHO.
FOG
It would be the same with all the other oil orifices in the engine. They are all fixed in size, not variable. The drain back capacity will have over 4 times that of the supply and sludge development in the OPDA is far less likely than in other parts of the engine that see higher heat loads. Top that with the use of high quality synthetic oil and the chances become remote.

The spacing between shaft and bearing is sufficient for grease to liquefy and flow. It is more than sufficient for oil especially with the addition of a helical groove on the shaft.

Older style distributors where also sealed at the top. The upper bearing was not sealed from oil flow as ours is. Combined with oil grooves and proper oil they had sufficient lubrication.

I don't find this difficult to. It's the same as delivering oil to a turbocharger and I've done that plenty of times.

Plus, this is just fun for me.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 09:32 PM   #1256
bacon225
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OK my next stupid question.
I bought a new OPDA did the FOG mod pumped it full of high Moly grease. Installed it fine started it up took a trip around the block NO codes. Changed the oil with Mobil 1 turbo oil. This is leading up too the stupid question while checking for leaks and just double checking my work. I put my hand on the top of the OPDA and it seemed to feel like if had a little vibration to it sort of a slight clicking feeling you could feel in the palm of you hand. I never felt the old one and really don't want to go change them back out. So has anyone else felt theirs and does it feel the same. Or do I have a problem?
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Unread 12-10-2010, 10:00 PM   #1257
JBWood05TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
I'm all for a better solution after all I don't get any royalties off the Fog Mod.

FOG
Well, that may be true. But you're close enough for me to say look me up if you're ever gonna be on the NE side of H-town (Humble area) and the beers are on me!
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Unread 12-11-2010, 12:15 AM   #1258
keithert
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Originally Posted by keithert View Post
I'd really like to find someone with a DRB scan tool to verify my adjustment. A mechanic at a local Merlin shop claims to have one of his own. Maybe I'll have him check it with me watching.
I stopped at the Merlin shop today and asked the guy to first verify with his Sun scan tool what the cam timing reading was. It read 10 degrees off! He adjusted it to -0.5 degrees. We'll see if it makes any difference in gas mileage. The amount he rotated the CPS was marginal. I think that a scanner is necessary to get these things adjusted properly after pulling them. His scanner looked just like one we have at a car donation charity I volunteer for. Hopefully their unit is up to date so I can check this myself in the future.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 12:30 AM   #1259
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacon225 View Post
OK my next stupid question.
I bought a new OPDA did the FOG mod pumped it full of high Moly grease. Installed it fine started it up took a trip around the block NO codes. Changed the oil with Mobil 1 turbo oil. This is leading up too the stupid question while checking for leaks and just double checking my work. I put my hand on the top of the OPDA and it seemed to feel like if had a little vibration to it sort of a slight clicking feeling you could feel in the palm of you hand. I never felt the old one and really don't want to go change them back out. So has anyone else felt theirs and does it feel the same. Or do I have a problem?
Both of my OPDA's always had a slight vibration with the rattle or clicking noise you describe. Next time your under the hood put your hand on the OPDA and rev the engine a bit and it should smooth out to just a slight vibration.

The reason for the click or vibration at idle is the cam turns half the speed of the crankshaft so when your idling at 700RPM the OPDA is only spinning at 300RPM. Because its slow speed your able to feel the pulsation.

This RPM reduction is why we can get away with just a zerk fitting and grease because even at highway speeds the most its seeing is 1200-1500 RPMS.

JBWood, I'm up in Houston all the time between going to UHD and work so will have to meet for a beer sometime.


FOG
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In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 01:12 AM   #1260
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithert View Post
It read 10 degrees off! He adjusted it to -0.5 degrees. We'll see if it makes any difference in gas mileage. The amount he rotated the CPS was marginal. I think that a scanner is necessary to get these things adjusted properly after pulling them.
As long as your with-in 15 degrees your not going to suffer any ill effects in mileage or engine performance. The reason for this is because as long as your with-in that 15 degrees the computer can compensate without a problem.

Actually the camshaft position sensor is really only needed at start up for the first few seconds. Once the engine is running you can unplug the CPS and the engine will keep running because it already realized where the camshaft is in relation to the crankshaft. Now once you turn the engine off your not going to be able to restart till you plug the Cam position sensor back in so the computer can re-learn the cam position.

What happens when you start the engine is it watches the crank position sensor on the bell housing while watching the cam position sensor in the OPDA. As it sees a certain point in the crank sensor it knows it should also be seeing the same in the cam sensor. If it just saw that point from the cam sensor or sees it just shortly after that it realizes that the cam sensor is slightly off and adjusts for that. The only requirement for this to work is the cam sensor has to be with-in 15 degrees.

If it exceeds 15 degrees the computer will throw a code saying the CPS relationship is beyond limits.

So if your not throwing a code your with-in 15 degrees and the computer is compensating like it should.



FOG
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In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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2006 , 4.0 , camshaft , replacement , tj , warranty , wrangler

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