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Unread 11-30-2010, 05:17 PM   #1111
Bigbob
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Originally Posted by JBWood05TJ View Post
My understanding is that the law requires that manufacturers continue to make parts available for a model year for a minimum number of years (I believe it is 10, but am sure that it is no less than this). If Chrysler is saying that the part will no longer be available for the '05 - '06, I think it is reasonable to assume that they are coming out with a new part to replace it. ?
Of course the new Chrysler never built that Jeep. The old Chrysler did. I seriously doubt the new company will come out with a better replacement part. The old Chrysler sure wouldn't back in the day. I am wagering many Jeepers are reading this stuff and ordering the thing. Also, now that those Jeeps have a little tooth to them more are going into the shop with failed units. They simply ran out. It's a pretty specialized component that was build only for that engine and that engine has not been in production for 5 years now. I'm sure they will eventually get more but don't expect them to come out with a new/better unit. The guys and gals working white collar at those auto plants look at our Jeeps as being obsolete as they are 5 years old.

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Unread 11-30-2010, 08:06 PM   #1112
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Of course the new Chrysler never built that Jeep. The old Chrysler did. I seriously doubt the new company will come out with a better replacement part. The old Chrysler sure wouldn't back in the day. I am wagering many Jeepers are reading this stuff and ordering the thing. Also, now that those Jeeps have a little tooth to them more are going into the shop with failed units. They simply ran out. It's a pretty specialized component that was build only for that engine and that engine has not been in production for 5 years now. I'm sure they will eventually get more but don't expect them to come out with a new/better unit. The guys and gals working white collar at those auto plants look at our Jeeps as being obsolete as they are 5 years old.
Regardless of whether they perceive these Jeeps to be obsolete or not, they are still required to provide parts for at least ten years. So either the information about not producing any more of the current ODPA is in error, or they would have to produce a new one.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 09:51 PM   #1113
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Regardless of whether they perceive these Jeeps to be obsolete or not, they are still required to provide parts for at least ten years. So either the information about not producing any more of the current ODPA is in error, or they would have to produce a new one.
And I doubt they will build a better mousetrap, but they will build more of the same OPDG units. They can wash their hands to speak with some issues of cars built by the previous company. Chrysler Group never built a 4.0 or a TJ/LJ Jeep. Legally they have no requirement to build parts for something they never built to begin with. On the good side, I just got a customer satisfaction work notice from them on my '09 Ram which was built by the old Chrysler. (Now called Old Carco BTW) Due to customer satisfaction they do cater to the Pre-Chrysler Group stuff. My dealer told me to keep an eye out for possible recalls as the new company technically has no responsibility to send out recall notices on something they did not build. But with lawyers being who they are, I bet the new company will do recalls on the older pre-5/09 stuff. I bought my Ram the day they went bankrupt. I bleed blue blood. I have had Chrysler products since 1974, my father in law worked for them for 41 years. The old Chrysler was famous for failing to re-engineer faulty parts over the last 10 years they were around, they would just warranty it and put the same junk back in. Hopefully the new company will fix faulty stuff by making better mousetraps instead of putting the same crap back in. But with the limited amount of '05-'06 4.0 units around I doubt they will. I am sure they have already made orders of the OPDG units from whoever supplied them before.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 11:43 PM   #1114
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These pictures are of lifters out of a 04 LJ with ONLY 27,000 miles on it. After reading around on ROF this isn't an isolated incident. There have been several other TJ owners with low milage that had engine failure as a result of worn lifters.

I've noticed most of these failures are of the later TJs and with low miles. After thinking of a bit I came up with a theory that gets back to ZDDP. Most engines don't just "wear in" or "break in" for the first couple thousand miles. Yes there is allot of "break in" during the first couple thousand but with engines like ours it continues for 10-20K miles IMHO.

My theory is the earlier 4.0s were broken in their first 10-20k miles running SL rated high ZDDP oils. Once the engines were pasted that 20K mark they have finished "seating" or "wearing" in the most critical parts in the engine.

Now with the later models (04-06) they went into production after the EPA mandated the lowering of the ZDDP. Because of this those first 10-20K critical miles were with a low ZDDP oil which set up the engine for problems down the road.

Some of the guys here can argue all they want about the lack of ZDDP not causing any problems and not being the source of the gear failures. But I grew up around Jeeps and the 4.0 and never saw one much less several that were totally stock eat a lifter especially at such low mileage.


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Unread 12-01-2010, 12:51 AM   #1115
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Well I replaced my OPDA today and while I was driving it back home up Spooner Summit she started to violently buck and the check engine light started flashing and stayed on. Luckily I was only a 1/2 mile or so from the only turn around point on Spooner and was able to coast her back down to the dealership... finally the dealership is going to see the code. I highly suspect I have serious issues and will not be taking her home soon.

I got to say I have about had it with Jeep... bought a Toyota 4x4 today to relieve the Heep from winter duties here in Tahoe.
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Unread 12-01-2010, 01:15 AM   #1116
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Well this thread really makes me happy that i bought the wimpy 2.4L!
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Unread 12-01-2010, 02:54 AM   #1117
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post






These pictures are of lifters out of a 04 LJ with ONLY 27,000 miles on it. After reading around on ROF this isn't an isolated incident. There have been several other TJ owners with low milage that had engine failure as a result of worn lifters.

I've noticed most of these failures are of the later TJs and with low miles. After thinking of a bit I came up with a theory that gets back to ZDDP. Most engines don't just "wear in" or "break in" for the first couple thousand miles. Yes there is allot of "break in" during the first couple thousand but with engines like ours it continues for 10-20K miles IMHO.

My theory is the earlier 4.0s were broken in their first 10-20k miles running SL rated high ZDDP oils. Once the engines were pasted that 20K mark they have finished "seating" or "wearing" in the most critical parts in the engine.

Now with the later models (04-06) they went into production after the EPA mandated the lowering of the ZDDP. Because of this those first 10-20K critical miles were with a low ZDDP oil which set up the engine for problems down the road.

Some of the guys here can argue all they want about the lack of ZDDP not causing any problems and not being the source of the gear failures. But I grew up around Jeeps and the 4.0 and never saw one much less several that were totally stock eat a lifter especially at such low mileage.


FOG
I've done that several times now, but no lifter/cam lobe problems since the high ZDDP oil. I know many jeep guys in real life and on the internet with similar stories.
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Unread 12-01-2010, 07:35 AM   #1118
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They can wash their hands to speak with some issues of cars built by the previous company. Chrysler Group never built a 4.0 or a TJ/LJ Jeep. Legally they have no requirement to build parts for something they never built to begin with.

My dealer told me to keep an eye out for possible recalls as the new company technically has no responsibility to send out recall notices on something they did not build.
I believe these statements are incorrect. I'm not a lawyer, but I have done some study and been involved in the sales of a couple of companies. (And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ) I believe that the sale of Chrysler by DC to Cerebus, and then from Cerebus to Fiat, were equity sales (or 'stock sales'), as opposed to asset sales. This would mean that the new owners own the assets, liabilities, goodwill and equity on the balance sheet on the transaction date. And in the category of liabilities would fall the responsibility for recalls, warranties, and obligations to offer parts as long as is required by law. However, you are correct in that this does not include the obligation to re-design parts.
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Unread 12-01-2010, 08:27 AM   #1119
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I believe these statements are incorrect. I believe that the sale of Chrysler by DC to Cerebus, and then from Cerebus to Fiat, were equity sales (or 'stock sales'), as opposed to asset sales. This would mean that the new owners own the assets, liabilities, goodwill and equity on the balance sheet on the transaction date. And in the category of liabilities would fall the responsibility for recalls, warranties, and obligations to offer parts as long as is required by law. However, you are correct in that this does not include the obligation to re-design parts.
Yes and no. The new company pick and chose what assets they wanted. Remember, the original Chrysler was in bankruptcy and the new company bought what they wanted. The new company has been very good as far as honoring warranties on stuff they did not build and I have not heard of them not sending out recall or other notices on vehicles they did not build. But don't think for a minute the new Union/Government/Fiat company took over everything the old company had. Old Carco is still trying to sell off assets to pay back government loans.

Chrysler is no more. You go to a Jeep dealer that is Chrysler Group.

Old Carco LLC: Private Company Information - BusinessWeek

Chrysler’s Old Carco Assets in Bankruptcy Can Be Liquidated - BusinessWeek

The new company also could have allowed many of the Chrysler retirees, as in white collar guys no UAW guys, to go completely in the toilet. They have done a little to be helpful, but it is a scary situation. My father in law is one of these. He lost a lot of his benefits like insurance and being able to get vehicles on the cheap from them. He still has some insurance, but he is out of pocket a tremendous amount more. His actual retirement went down somewhat and may eventually dry up once Old Carco is no more. He used to lease cars really cheap and I was able to get below dealers price as I am family. No more. LOL This last year was the first time he purchased a car in 45-50 years!
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Unread 12-01-2010, 04:19 PM   #1120
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Yes and no. The new company pick and chose what assets they wanted. Remember, the original Chrysler was in bankruptcy and the new company bought what they wanted. The new company has been very good as far as honoring warranties on stuff they did not build and I have not heard of them not sending out recall or other notices on vehicles they did not build. But don't think for a minute the new Union/Government/Fiat company took over everything the old company had. Old Carco is still trying to sell off assets to pay back government loans.

Chrysler is no more. You go to a Jeep dealer that is Chrysler Group.

Old Carco LLC: Private Company Information - BusinessWeek

Chrysler’s Old Carco Assets in Bankruptcy Can Be Liquidated - BusinessWeek

The new company also could have allowed many of the Chrysler retirees, as in white collar guys no UAW guys, to go completely in the toilet. They have done a little to be helpful, but it is a scary situation. My father in law is one of these. He lost a lot of his benefits like insurance and being able to get vehicles on the cheap from them. He still has some insurance, but he is out of pocket a tremendous amount more. His actual retirement went down somewhat and may eventually dry up once Old Carco is no more. He used to lease cars really cheap and I was able to get below dealers price as I am family. No more. LOL This last year was the first time he purchased a car in 45-50 years!
Ahh, I see. Thanks for patiently walking me through these details. This is obviously going to get more interesting for all owners of Chrysler products built before the filing as time passes. Let me ask you this: We're in a particular situation because there is a clear line between our the end of production of our TJ model and the purchase of the ongoing assets by Fiat et al. What about those products for which the pre-filing design is essentially the same as the post-filing design? Since Chrysler Group LLC has continued building according to Old Carco designs, does the new company 'own' any latent problems that may not have surfaced as yet, even for those units built before the purchase?

I guess I should have started another thread as I've taken this one pretty far afield now. Apologies to all.

I'm sorry to hear about your fater-in-law being so dramatically affected. Tough deal for everyone involved.
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Unread 12-01-2010, 05:02 PM   #1121
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When it came to the GM and Chrysler bankruptcy the rules went out the window. Not going to make this a political post, but there was one main person in our government that totally bypassed all the bankrupcy rules.

The bond holders in GM and Chrysler were first line creditors per US bankruptcy law and the unions with their pensions were at the bottom of list. This person in our government allowed GM and Chrysler to totally walk away from the bond holders and give the assets the last person in line for them the unions.

The majority of bond holders in GM and Chrysler were municipalities and professional organizations pensions like the teachers.

So what ever the law would have dictated in their case isn't worth the paper its written on. The entire bankruptcy pretty much was dump all the liabilities on the bond holders and give the good assets to the union so they will still vote for that person and his party.


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Unread 12-01-2010, 05:59 PM   #1122
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Ok, so my 05 TJ has started acting up. Vehicle build date is 02/05 so I'm assuming the engine is in the affected date range. I pulled the codes today and got a camshaft position sensor code. I've got bucking at low speeds, mpg has went to hell and I can feel a power loss especially when the CEL is on.

If I call the 1-800 number and all that, do you think I'm a canidate to get a replacement? What are my options?
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Unread 12-01-2010, 06:03 PM   #1123
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I think we should get this topic back on the OPDA and away from bankruptcy and who owns what. There is already a brazilian posts in this thread.

I should have my OPDA back from the machine shop this week. They are doing me a favor so I don't want to press them. Once received, I'll post some picks. I also plan to install the zerk in the upper bushing.

FOG, any tips on hole sizes for the drill bit in the bushing? Also what size zerk? I'm thinking 1/4-28 or 5/16-24.
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Unread 12-01-2010, 06:08 PM   #1124
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If I call the 1-800 number and all that, do you think I'm a canidate to get a replacement? What are my options?
If its throwing the code and bucking then your camshaft gear is trashed. You also lost or had reduced oil pressure while this was happening.

As far as Chrysler they were covering these pretty good at first because it wasn't very many. But since ALLOT of them are failing they are getting VERY nasty and unwilling to cover them.

My best advice is to take it to a dealer that you know and trust that will fight Chrysler for you. From what I've seen that IS what makes the difference between getting it fixed on your dime or there and that's the dealership.

You didn't say how many miles you have on it, but honestly you can try to get Chrysler to pay for it but I wouldn't hold my breath.

IF I was in your spot I would go to Mopar Parts and order a new CPS and get it on the way. I would talk to your dealer and see what if anything they will do. If they say your own your own then take your Jeep home and do the repairs yourself it will be ALLOT cheaper.

If you do it yourself all your going to be out is gaskets, a OPDA, lifters and a camshaft. This is assuming that you didn't take any damage from losing oil pressure.


Willy I use the 1/4"-28 with a non-tapered tap that's designed for shallow/blind holes. The biggest thing with tapping threads is just remember to grease up the tap really good and don't do more than a turn or two without backing it out, cleaning out the metal shavings and re-greasing it. Also remember when tapping a hole you turn forward a 1/4 turn then turn back a half turn, this allows the metal shavings to enter the channels on the tap.

The two biggest problems people run into when tapping threads is not lubricating it, and letting too much metal build up in the tap/threads. Because the OPDA housing is aluminum its really easy to drill and tap but its also easy to gaul the threads if your in a hurry.

Also be sure to use RED loctite on the zerk. The threads on most zerks are short, only 2-3 turns, and with the heat and cooling of the housing they can easily back out as I found out last month. This also helps prevent you from ripping the threads out because you don't have to torque the piss out of it to get it to stay put.


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Unread 12-01-2010, 06:10 PM   #1125
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Ok, so my 05 TJ has started acting up. Vehicle build date is 02/05 so I'm assuming the engine is in the affected date range. I pulled the codes today and got a camshaft position sensor code. I've got bucking at low speeds, mpg has went to hell and I can feel a power loss especially when the CEL is on.

If I call the 1-800 number and all that, do you think I'm a canidate to get a replacement? What are my options?
You can go to the dealer and waste time. Assuming you have the 7/70K warranty you will pay a $100 deductible. The cost of the OPDA is from moparparts is $112 and you'd get to keep the bad OPDA (for dissection!). Installing an OPDA is relatively easy to do yourself. The dealer is unlikely to help in any meaningful way. Buy the replacement and install it your self.

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Just to chime in on where to buy the OPDA and gasket.
I purchased OPDA part number: 53010624 $97.85
Gasket part number: J3181288 $1.87

from: Mopar Parts

Total including freight was $112.67

They are Jerry Ulm Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep
2968 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL 33607
(813) 872-6645

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