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Unread 11-23-2010, 05:49 PM   #1036
TheFog
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Still have that CPS assembly sitting on my work bench waiting for me to install a zerk and snap some pictures. I will try to do it this week while off work and school.

Of all the CPS units I've torn apart the wear on the bottom bushing has always been very very minimal (cosmetic) that could be cleaned off with 1000+ grit sandpaper. To me this indicates its getting plenty of oil to lubricate it for the load it sees.

The issue is the upper bushing and this is where the "wildcard" comes in with some people getting 100K miles out of their CPS and some only getting 10K miles.

The issue with the upper bushing is the design of the lubrication but also a random defect, I'll explain. When I first installed the zerk on my CPS unit I just pulled the fill plug and threaded in a zerk and used a grease gun to pressurized grease in. As I pumped grease I saw it appear in the bore right above the bottom seal for the upper bushing.

I posted this here on JF and other forums and soon had several people telling me I was nuts and that they pumped the heck out of the grease but it never appeared in the bore. After thinking about it for a couple of weeks and tearing open a few other CPS units it occurred to me this is why some last and some don't.

The way the upper bushing is designed to lubricate is there is a thick wax like grease in a cavity around in upper bushing. When the bushing heats up the wax should liquefy and permeate into the bore and lubricate the upper bushing. Where the problem is with the design I can't tell you, I don't know if its pore size in the upper bushing or changes in the the lubricate.

What I think was/is happening is the upper bushing isn't being lubricated properly as its heat up the shaft expands and causes friction with the bushing and additional load on the gear.

The solution is to start with a small drill bit and go through both the outer wall of the CPS and through the bushing. Then come back with the larger drill bit for tap and enlarge ONLY the OUTER hole, tap it and thread the zerk in. What this does is allows for two things, one direct lubrication of the shaft while its spinning. But because the hole into the shaft is allot smaller it allots back pressure which allows you to fill the cavity around the bushing with grease which will slowly melt and lubricate the bushing between grease gun applications.

From the results I've seen with doing this for four local Jeeperes with this same problem I feel that with the addition of a upper bushing zerk, high quality gear and ACEA rated oil that the problem is solvable.


FOG

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Unread 11-23-2010, 07:41 PM   #1037
willydigger
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Putting a zerk in should be easy enough. I'll talk to the machine shop tomorrow. I'll see if he can add some tubing to move the zerk to a more accessible location. Please post some pics so we can have some reference.

Quick confirmation, you are talking about adding the access point where the factory plug in located?



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Unread 11-23-2010, 08:05 PM   #1038
TheFog
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Yes that's where I originally put a Zerk fitting on the first CPS I modified with one. But I found this to be a PITA to lube so I mounted it on the side of the CPS of easier access.

FOG
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Unread 11-23-2010, 08:41 PM   #1039
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This thread alone is worth so much more than my premium subscription to the Jeep Forum. Sincere thanks to all that have contributed. I too am looking for a quality solution and I think we're going to get one without the help of Chrysler.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 09:02 PM   #1040
Bigbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterpsc View Post
This thread alone is worth so much more than my premium subscription to the Jeep Forum. Sincere thanks to all that have contributed. I too am looking for a quality solution and I think we're going to get one without the help of Chrysler.
Ditto here. I only have 19K on my '06 and really have not been worried about it until going through the 70 pages here. I am pulling mine this weekend to see what I gotz. I agree Chrysler is not going to do anything about this until I have a failure. Proactive is a good thing.

Now for a question.

If the grease zerk is a good idea, how about running a very small oil line off the oil gauge sender to lube it? I figure the oil could drool out the bottom and help keep the gears lubed as well.

Would this work or is it sealed?

I'm talking about a tiny hose or tube similar to a oil gauge line with possibly a small orifice in it to limit the flow.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 09:34 PM   #1041
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
I'm talking about a tiny hose or tube similar to a oil gauge line with possibly a small orifice in it to limit the flow.
The problem is the bushing isn't just one big long bushing, its a top and bottom. The top bushing is "sealed system" with a seal keeping it from contacting the bottom bushings lubrication oil (crankcase oil). The top bushing is the one we are putting the zerk on.

The idea of having a oil nozzle deliver oil to the CPS unit has been suggested before but would require machining of the CPS unit to make it one big bushing plus a return oil path to keep the overflow from leaving the housing.

From my evaluations the oil getting into the bottom bushing is plenty to keep it lubricated to prevent wear, provided its a good high quality ACEA high ZDDP oil.

The main issue is the upper bushing needing lubrication which is solved with the zerk fitting and 2-3 pumps of grease every couple thousand miles.


FOG
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Unread 11-23-2010, 09:44 PM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
The problem is the bushing isn't just one big long bushing, its a top and bottom. The top bushing is "sealed system" with a seal keeping it from contacting the bottom bushings lubrication oil (crankcase oil). The top bushing is the one we are putting the zerk on.

The idea of having a oil nozzle deliver oil to the CPS unit has been suggested before but would require machining of the CPS unit to make it one big bushing plus a return oil path to keep the overflow from leaving the housing.

From my evaluations the oil getting into the bottom bushing is plenty to keep it lubricated to prevent wear, provided its a good high quality ACEA high ZDDP oil.

The main issue is the upper bushing needing lubrication which is solved with the zerk fitting and 2-3 pumps of grease every couple thousand miles.


FOG
So the top bushing is sealed on both sides? Why did they do that? I was thinking if you ran oil to the top bushing it'd flow down to the bottom and out the "ports" and lube the gear.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 06:08 AM   #1043
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Yes that's where I originally put a Zerk fitting on the first CPS I modified with one. But I found this to be a PITA to lube so I mounted it on the side of the CPS of easier access.

FOG
So under the LDI in the LDI label? Is it difficult to drill through the bushing? Do you have any tips on drill sizes and zerk sizes?
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Unread 11-24-2010, 07:16 AM   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
EDIT:

Looking at the pic below, the oil travels up the gear teeth (the teeth would be spinning to the left/Clockwise). It has to maneuver around the steel baffle (green line) and up the oil channels. From there, without the oil groove, the oil must somehow get back out. With the channel (blue line) the oil would have a path out.

I am wondering if you put an oil line in where the grease zerk goes then ran a groove all the way along the shafts full length you could run pressurized low volume engine oil in this and not only lube the bushings but also increase the oil to the gear. I need to tear one of these apart. To do this a different seal may be needed at the top to prevent oil from spooging out into the CPS, but I think it would work.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 08:32 AM   #1045
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Bob, there is no seal on the top of the top bushing. The seal is on the bottom. I would think you would have to remove the seal so the oil could escape. If you added an oil groove along the length of the shaft it should purge the oil from the top, but it's out of my level of knowledge.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 11:07 AM   #1046
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So from what I am understanding my idea of pressurized oil probaly won't work without some major machine work to install a upper seal and groove the shaft. So it looks like a grease zerk in my near future. The tiny hole through the bushing and filling the cavity makes perfect sense now.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 11:41 AM   #1047
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
The tiny hole through the bushing and filling the cavity makes perfect sense now.
If you really want to go to allot of work and have OCD like me you can drill two holes. The original CPS unit I took the zerk out of the side where the original fill port was and plugged the outer hole with a grub screw.

With this grub screw the passageway from the inner channel to the bore was still open it just plugged the fill port opening. I then drilled a hole on the side close to the LDI label but only deep enough to get into the cavity between the outside and the bushing. I installed the zerk on that hole and now when I fill it up with grease it fills the entire cavity THEN goes into the bore.

Its overkill in my opinion but was the easiest way to move the zerk. So far I've done 4 CPS units with zerks they all worked just as good be it direct grease to the bore or indirect like I described above.

As far as the type of grease to use, get one with the highest moly content you can. So far the best one I've found is Cat desert gold grease made by Caterpillar. It has 5% moly and it can take a hell of a beating before it turns to carbon. http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386255/7/NEHP6012-02.pdf


FOG
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Unread 11-24-2010, 01:19 PM   #1048
fdoepel
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been following this thread. i have an 06 tl with 65k. runs good, my question is.
my ? is: would it decrease the chances of having this problem is i used synthetic oil?
all input appreciated
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Unread 11-24-2010, 02:34 PM   #1049
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Oh boy now that's a loaded question. You'll hear the synthetic is a good start but you need high ZDDP. Others will say that you can just run dino. I started off with synthetic at 20,000 when I bought mine and at 55,000 mine went and took the cam with it.

I'm using dino now. I had synthetic in my diffs too and they both leaked out their pinions. Was it because of it? who knows. But I didn't see any benefits from it there nor in my engine. Plus dino is cheaper and I'm changing every 4k-5k with it. I'm not a fan of taking the synthetics and running them 10k+ miles.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 02:34 PM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdoepel View Post
been following this thread. i have an 06 tl with 65k. runs good, my question is.
my ? is: would it decrease the chances of having this problem is i used synthetic oil?
all input appreciated
Its hard to say---- if you browse the oil forums and look at all the UOA's (used oil analysis) you will see that modern conventional oils protect engines from wear generally just as good as synthetic oils. IMO, syn oils main benefits are much longer drain intervals, better protection in extreme cold/hot temps, and for forced induction motors, or motors that run real hot.
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