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Unread 09-02-2010, 02:31 PM   #706
Peterpsc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmeredit View Post
Peterpsc - Can you tell us anything about the Hesco pump, and the installation of it? How is the quality compared to OEM? On your '06 LJ - did you have to modify the pan to install it? Wondering specifically about pan baffles as I haven't pulled one myself.
Quality is excellent compared to OEM...will it perform better (?) that remains to be seen but I'm sure the oiling tube will provide assistance for lubricating the gear that's been problematic for us. Yes, the pan must be "worked" a little (ball-peen hammer) nothing serious.

FWIW, as I and others have stated, I'm "believing" our problem w/ the worn gears are a function of poor lubrication and lack of zddp. From what I've read, the oil additive changes over the years has worked against engines like the 4.0, and the Hesco oiling tube approach (I think) is superior compared to the "oil splash" method. Again, only time will tell.

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Unread 09-02-2010, 02:53 PM   #707
Jerry Bransford
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In my personal opinion, if this problem was caused by low zddp oil, it would be affecting a wide range of 4.0L engines, not just those in the specific model years (like 05/06) having this issue.
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Unread 09-02-2010, 04:26 PM   #708
Peterpsc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
In my personal opinion, if this problem was caused by low zddp oil, it would be affecting a wide range of 4.0L engines, not just those in the specific model years (like 05/06) having this issue.
That's a good point and I don't disagree.

I have no idea, exactly, what's causing the premature failures but the extra oiling via the Hesco tube approach can't hurt. I think the ZDDP issue is well documented with cams/flat-tappets and so forth but I didn't mean to imply lack of ZDDP itself was the primary cause of failures. Just a little extra insurance w/ the additive, IMHO.

It's clearly a Chrysler problem but it appears they're not stepping up to the plate and offer to help us out. My approach is simple do what I can to best avoid a potential problem. So far I've confirmed I don't have the premature wear and of course I'd like to keep that way.
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Unread 09-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #709
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
In my personal opinion, if this problem was caused by low zddp oil, it would be affecting a wide range of 4.0L engines, not just those in the specific model years (like 05/06) having this issue.
Exactly. If you look at the 2 different designs of the OPDA's, the shaft/bushing/gear setup is almost the same, with only a few differences. The Gears are EXACTLY the same. Some members have already tested the hardness to confirm this. I've confirmed that the older gear fits on the 06 shaft without any modification. Why are the 05-06 gears not lasting as long as the older style? It is my opinion also that it's not the oil.

But the shafts are DIFFERENT. The earlier model has an oil groove in the shaft that forces oil into the lower bushing and unit cavity, and has a oil seal at the top of the upper bushing to keep the oil from seeping out. The 05-06 unit does not have this groove in the shaft. Although the lower bushing dimension is EXACTLY the same as the older unit, it DOES NOT get oil from an oil groove like the earlier models.The upper bushing relies on grease that is packed into a cavity, and is supposed to last the lifetime of the unit.

In ALL of the older style units that I checked (3 of them with high mileage), the shafts were pristine, and the gears showed very little wear. In my 06, the shaft is wasted. I can tell just by looking at the major scoring and grooves that are present in the lower bushing area of the shaft, that it is running fairly dry. How much resistance this is causing is unknown, but on my unit, it opened up a lot of slop between the bushing and the shaft too. From what I can see, this is the major difference between the older and newer style units.

How many of you have actually went as far as disassembled your units, and looked at the shaft instead of just looking at the gear?
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Unread 09-02-2010, 06:08 PM   #710
bonza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
But the shafts are DIFFERENT. The earlier model has an oil groove in the shaft that forces oil into the lower bushing and unit cavity, and has a oil seal at the top of the upper bushing to keep the oil from seeping out. The 05-06 unit does not have this groove in the shaft. Although the lower bushing is EXACTLY the same as the older unit, it DOES NOT get oil from an oil groove like the earlier models.The upper bushing relies on grease that is packed into a cavity, and is supposed to last the lifetime of the unit.
I think this analysis is correct. for plain bushings it's usually standard practice to have a groove for lube in either the bush or the journal. if the bush or shaft wears this will allow the gear mesh to disengage slightly or if it doesnt wear it could create friction and apply greater load to the gears

do the older style units have the upper bush lubed by oil?
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Unread 09-02-2010, 07:14 PM   #711
tkki1230
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Originally Posted by bonza View Post
do the older style units have the upper bush lubed by oil?
It looks like the older style relies on that groove to push oil into the cavity where the bushing sits. There must be adequate lubrication because of the presence of that oil seal. The big difference between the two units regarding the upper bushing is the length. The older style is shorter by about half an inch. The newer style bushing protrudes up in the unit body, and has no seal. I feel that there is very little load on that upper bushing. Here are some pics. You can see the oil seal and shorter bushing on the older style.
new.jpg   old.jpg  
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Unread 09-02-2010, 10:08 PM   #712
tkki1230
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Here's a pic of a side by side comparison. You can see the oil groove on the older style shaft (upper one). Even with the crappy phone pic, if you look at my 06 shaft (lower one), you can see the major scoring right above the teeth.
2.jpg  
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Unread 09-03-2010, 06:04 AM   #713
rmeredit
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Thoughts about taking a NEW unit and having an oiling groove cut into it?
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Unread 09-03-2010, 07:37 AM   #714
Sweeney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmeredit View Post
Thoughts about taking a NEW unit and having an oiling groove cut into it?
^This is my plan.

I just got the new unit in yesterday. The shaft on my current OPDA is lightly scored in the area of the lower bushing. The upper portion is fine.

Once I swap units I'm going to look into machining a sleeve to press over the upper bushing where it protrudes from the housing into which I can insert a seal. I would, of course, remove the inner seal below the upper bushing and continue the shaft's oil groove to the upper bushing.
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Unread 09-03-2010, 08:04 AM   #715
Peterpsc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
Here's a pic of a side by side comparison. You can see the oil groove on the older style shaft (upper one). Even with the crappy phone pic, if you look at my 06 shaft (lower one), you can see the major scoring right above the teeth.
Looks like you detailed the differences between what has worked and what has not. Great job, thank you. My hope is the oiling tube on the Hesco pump takes care of the lack of lubrication problem.
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Unread 09-04-2010, 10:34 AM   #716
RubiOR
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My new OPDA came in yesterday from moparpartsamerica.com. Nothing in the box but the drive. Should there be a gasket? I haven't pulled the old one yet since I don't want to be gasket-less on a three-day weekend...
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Unread 09-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #717
TheFog
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Nope no gasket, all they ship is the assembly plus a little plastic indexing plug. Oriellys and Autozone both carry the gasket but their computer doesn't come up with it for a recent TJ so just ask for like a 2000 TJ gasket.


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Unread 09-04-2010, 02:05 PM   #718
RubiOR
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Nope no gasket, all they ship is the assembly plus a little plastic indexing plug. Oriellys and Autozone both carry the gasket but their computer doesn't come up with it for a recent TJ so just ask for like a 2000 TJ gasket.
Thanks Fog!

I've gathered up and summarized what I've learned here so far: OPDA Solution Summary

If I've left anything out, please let me know and I'll update.
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Unread 09-04-2010, 03:09 PM   #719
Sweeney
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I didn't expect this (not sure why) but mine came with the sensor installed. How about you guys?
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Unread 09-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #720
tkki1230
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Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
I didn't expect this (not sure why) but mine came with the sensor installed. How about you guys?
Same here.
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2006 , 4.0 , camshaft , replacement , tj , warranty , wrangler

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