Chrysler is paying to install a new cam (2005/2006 owners should read this) - Page 34 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 08-10-2010, 10:26 PM   #496
anymanusa
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^^I put cam break in lube on the new gear, and I bought a zinc/phosphorus additive for the oil that I'm going to use, and I don't expect that I've solved anything, rather delayed/band-aided the inevitable.

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Unread 08-10-2010, 10:29 PM   #497
anymanusa
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^^also, I wouldn't use the words "easy enough"... You have to be extremely careful when drilling... You can break a bit off in the hardened material and really **** yourself, also, use an center punch so you don't get any drift, and then drill a pilot hole with a 5/32" drill or similar, use a lubricant, oil if nothing else, while drilling, and then once you have the first hole finished, deburr, and then put the gear on the shaft and line up the holes and then use the lined up assembly as a guiding jig to drill the second hole, or you will NEVER get the holes lined up right. If you need I can talk you through it on the phone, but just remember to have your ducks in a row, otherwise you can really **** it up.

Last edited by anymanusa; 08-10-2010 at 10:47 PM..
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Unread 08-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #498
DstroyrOfWrldz
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oh, glad you brought my attention to the edit, so it's only .015" off? I thought I had read somewhere that the slop above the stock gear was .030" and that the new gear would have put it at .090", which is where I came up with .060". No matter, I can figure that out myself when I get to it, put that engineering degree to work, lol.


By "easy enough", I meant easy enough to comprehend the process...I HATE drilling holes in round objects. I can use a punch but I'm not confident that I could do it right without having it clamped in a drill press.


Band-aid the inevitable...the inevitable being replacing the camshaft I assume...

Has it been determined whether the '05> camshaft is the same as the <'04 part? The suckage would be truly immense to replace the cam and retrofit the old drive gear only to discover that the 05+ cam gear was what was doing the damage all along. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit for any car manucfaturer to try to blame the OPDA instead of the cam because it's so much less expensive and labor intensive to replace.

As long as the shafts are the same, we should be able to feel confident that a new cam and the old gear retrofitted onto the OPDA is a permanent fix.

I'll be interested to see how your new gear lasts...and mine ...lets keep our fingers crossed that the camshaft gear is harder than the OPDA gear so the damage isn't as bad.

I'm going to wait until I get the 7/70 transferred before I call chrysler and start a case. At that point I'll hit up my dealer and see what they'll do.
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Unread 08-10-2010, 11:33 PM   #499
anymanusa
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Quote:
oh, glad you brought my attention to the edit, so it's only .015" off? I thought I had read somewhere that the slop above the stock gear was .030" and that the new gear would have put it at .090", which is where I came up with .060". No matter, I can figure that out myself when I get to it, put that engineering degree to work, lol.
Yeah, all of this is correct. My stock 'slop' was 0.030", the new gear was 0.090", and I did re-drilling to make the 'slop' 0.017". I am not looking forward to the sync process since I have the cam and crank sensors way out from each other now.
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Unread 08-10-2010, 11:52 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
I am not looking forward to the sync process since I have the cam and crank sensors way out from each other now.
Did you use a allen wrench and lock the CPS rotor on the timing hole? If so then there isn't an issue. Just stick an allen wrench back in the hole and lock the rotor. Then just slide the CPS assembly back into the engine, lock it down and your ready to roll.

I don't know why anyone tries to make alignment marks when you have the option of using the floor proof timing marks.

FOG
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:00 AM   #501
DstroyrOfWrldz
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
Yeah, all of this is correct. My stock 'slop' was 0.030", the new gear was 0.090", and I did re-drilling to make the 'slop' 0.017". I am not looking forward to the sync process since I have the cam and crank sensors way out from each other now.
Can't you just stab it with the intention of hitting the oil pump drive groove the same way, and at most you'll have to rotate the housing by a tooth width?

I didn't have to mess with putting mine in very much...somehow I hit it perfectly on the first stab. But I've done it before on other vehicles so I'm familiar with the mechanism.

I guess if it's 13 teeth then each tooth is 28°...that is a fair bit but I'm pretty sure the housing had enough room to rotate that much in either direction.

I think when I do mine I'll make sure the new hole is identical in relation to the tooth straight above it, that should ensure that the housing won't have to turn much.


EDIT: Just saw TheFog's reply...didn't know you could do that. Sounds MUCH easier.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:08 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
I'm still within 7 years/70k miles but I'm the second owner. I'm mailing the transfer form to the guy I bought it from to have him sign it. Good thing I found that, it says it can only be done at the time the vehicle is sold...just bought it two weeks ago, haven't even tagged it yet.
I think you only have 30 days to do the transfer, good thing you are getting it done by the looks of it. I have the 7/70 still active on mine since I am also the second owner and paid the $$$ to get it transfered. I still have 26k and 2yrs left, hopefully they will have some parts before it expires...LOL.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:17 AM   #503
anymanusa
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Did you use a allen wrench and lock the CPS rotor on the timing hole? If so then there isn't an issue. Just stick an allen wrench back in the hole and lock the rotor. Then just slide the CPS assembly back into the engine, lock it down and your ready to roll.

I don't know why anyone tries to make alignment marks when you have the option of using the floor proof timing marks.

FOG
This won't work, since I re-drilled the roll pin holes 90ish degrees out. My timing marks will forever be changed, and the 'line up the holes' method will never work again for me, unless I get another 'stock' gear, and go with the 'stock' slop.

I will have to get it close, and adjust in small increments until I no longer get the error code for misaligned crank/cam sensors, or do some type of 'ocilliscope' sync. I don't know how to do the 'scope sync, so I will prolly just try to start the engine while moving the rotor housing, and then move the rotor housing in minute increments until I no longer get the 'out of sync' code. I believe it is code p0016, but whatever. You get the drift.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:20 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
Can't you just stab it with the intention of hitting the oil pump drive groove the same way, and at most you'll have to rotate the housing by a tooth width?

I didn't have to mess with putting mine in very much...somehow I hit it perfectly on the first stab. But I've done it before on other vehicles so I'm familiar with the mechanism.

I guess if it's 13 teeth then each tooth is 28°...that is a fair bit but I'm pretty sure the housing had enough room to rotate that much in either direction.

I think when I do mine I'll make sure the new hole is identical in relation to the tooth straight above it, that should ensure that the housing won't have to turn much.


EDIT: Just saw TheFog's reply...didn't know you could do that. Sounds MUCH easier.
Somewhat true. I shouldn't have more than 360*/13teeth out of sync. This translates to about 29ish degrees,... I haven't thought about the 2 revolutions of crank per one revolution of camshaft yet... I'm a tad bit 'relaxed' to be thinking about that right now.

Anyway, that will either double or half my adjustment parameters... I will give it some sober thought tomorrow.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:23 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post

EDIT: Just saw TheFog's reply...didn't know you could do that. Sounds MUCH easier.
remember, that's what I was thinking before I edited my post... that isn't correct. Since I redrilled the hole, that trick will NOT work anymore. The only way that would work is if I redrilled the hole EXACTLY like it was in relation to the original tooth/relation, and didn't get it 180* out, because with 13 teeth, that matters. If it were an even number of teeth, it wouldn't.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:34 AM   #506
DstroyrOfWrldz
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Originally Posted by jeep06 View Post
I think you only have 30 days to do the transfer, good thing you are getting it done by the looks of it. I have the 7/70 still active on mine since I am also the second owner and paid the $$$ to get it transfered. I still have 26k and 2yrs left, hopefully they will have some parts before it expires...LOL.
on the transfer form it says 60 days, but yeah...if I hadn't read this thread and subsequently gone through all the service record paperwork that came with it, I would have missed the deadline and been screwed.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:39 AM   #507
DstroyrOfWrldz
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
remember, that's what I was thinking before I edited my post... that isn't correct. Since I redrilled the hole, that trick will NOT work anymore. The only way that would work is if I redrilled the hole EXACTLY like it was in relation to the original tooth/relation, and didn't get it 180* out, because with 13 teeth, that matters. If it were an even number of teeth, it wouldn't.
I should have looked more closely at the thing while I had it out...I just yanked it, looked at the teeth, took some pics, and stuck it back in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
Somewhat true. I shouldn't have more than 360*/13teeth out of sync. This translates to about 29ish degrees,... I haven't thought about the 2 revolutions of crank per one revolution of camshaft yet... I'm a tad bit 'relaxed' to be thinking about that right now.

Anyway, that will either double or half my adjustment parameters... I will give it some sober thought tomorrow.

Sober thought...wish I could give it some un-sober thought. The factory is working nights this month to get out of the heat and I volunteered to be engineering support, thinking I could get a lot of work done without all the daily office interruptions.

Problem is, I was right. I got caught up and even ahead in the first two nights...now I'm on night 3 and I'm BORED AS HELL. Jeepforum has to keep me sane until I go home at 5AM. Oh...and it's time for lunch. Or dinner. Hell, my body clock is so jacked up I don't even know what day it is.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:48 AM   #508
anymanusa
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Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
I should have looked more closely at the thing while I had it out...I just yanked it, looked at the teeth, took some pics, and stuck it back in.
B.




Sober thought...wish I could give it some un-sober thought. The factory is working nights this month to get out of the heat and I volunteered to be engineering support, thinking I could get a lot of work done without all the daily office interruptions.

Problem is, I was right. I got caught up and even ahead in the first two nights...now I'm on night 3 and I'm BORED AS HELL. Jeepforum has to keep me sane until I go home at 5AM. Oh...and it's time for lunch. Or dinner. Hell, my body clock is so jacked up I don't even know what day it is.
I took a ton of pics before i removed the unit... but they don't do a lot since i redrilled the gear.

Lol. I go in for night shift Sat Night.
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Unread 08-11-2010, 12:48 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
Yeah, all of this is correct. My stock 'slop' was 0.030", the new gear was 0.090", and I did re-drilling to make the 'slop' 0.017". I am not looking forward to the sync process since I have the cam and crank sensors way out from each other now.
the fog is correct on this. use the allen key in the target wheel trick to align the timing. its the relationship between the target wheel/sensor/TDC that matters. the OPDA gear to camgear has no real bearing
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Unread 08-11-2010, 01:03 AM   #510
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the fog is correct on this. use the allen key in the target wheel trick to align the timing. its the relationship between the target wheel/sensor/TDC that matters. the OPDA gear to camgear has no real bearing
NO HE IS NOT. The cam gear is not in relation to the sensor wheel since i redrilled the hole for the roll pin. I thought it was at first, but it is NOT. Think about it some more, you will understand why.
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