Chrysler is paying to install a new cam (2005/2006 owners should read this) - Page 33 - JeepForum.com

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post #481 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 04:16 PM
TheFog
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Getting back to the question of what exactly is causing the failure I took another good look at the gear I pulled of my original CPS with 27,000 miles.




One thing I had forgotten about in all the discussion was the fact the wear on my gear was VERY uneven. If you look at one part of the gear the wear mark is VERY smooth and the proper size. But as you rotate the gear you start to see the wear marks get bigger and start to show striations till you get 180 degrees from the smallest mark. At that point the wear and striations are their biggest and as you keep going back around they get smaller till they are the normal size back were we started looking at the gear.

Any ideas what could cause this? Could the CPS or cam gear be engaging at an angle?

The camshaft gear doesn't show any serious wear although there appears to be a wear mark or line on the middle of the side of the teeth.



FOG


In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.
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post #482 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 04:32 PM
anymanusa
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^^fog, what that tells me is that the cam has 13 teeth, just like the gear does, and that the cam has an 'eccentric' wobble, or the gear is not perfectly concentric, or the gear on the cam isn't concentric. I'll bet if someone gets a centerline measurement of all components in question, we will find another piece of the puzzle.
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post #483 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 04:33 PM
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if it varies on 180° that seems like the bore in the gear that the shaft goes into is not centered or the camshaft has a warp or casting flaw resulting in that gear not being centered on the camshaft axis.

However, I don't think that's what's causing the wear because it appeared that mine was perfectly uniform (though each tooth was more worn on one side than the other, presumably the loaded side).

With the axes of the two gears being perpendicular to eachother you get more sliding movement between the engaged gear teeth than you would in a transmission gear where they are parallel. That explains the striations in the wear marks. And the wear marks look pretty much exactly what I would expect from normal wear over 200,000+ miles...not 100k or less.

So that leads me to believe that either the material is substandard or that the OPDA gear is too large, putting excessive loading between the gears. However, if there was excessive loading I wouldn't expect it to come in and out s easy...unless it was loaded excessively when new and then got looser due to the wear.

Joe
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post #484 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 04:35 PM
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I just installed my new gear, and i redrilled the holes so that instead of 0.030" slop vertically, I now have 0.017" (I was aiming for 0.015"). I am going to coat the crap out of the gear with assembly lube, run it for a day or so, and then change the oil, filter and go on about my merry way.

I'll post pics when I can get some uploaded, my uploader is acting up on me right now.
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post #485 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 04:56 PM
DstroyrOfWrldz
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
^^i didn't catch where he said it needed to be machined... He just told me in a pm that he thought it would work.
I was just talking about having a machine shop drill the hole. I trust them a lot more than I do myself...being that I don't have a drill press or anything of the sort that would help me drill the hole straight and located correctly.

The hole you're referring to is the one with the roll pin in it, holding it to the shaft, right? When you talk about "slop" are you actually saying the gear moves up and down freely on the shaft or are you just talking about the gap above the gear?

With as close as the dimensions are that you're talking about, I assume you have to rotate the new hole around the shaft axis and line it up with a different tooth, because the dimensions are so close that the holes would overlap...

Joe
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post #486 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 2006_Sport View Post
What don't you understand about Chrysler not doing anything for anyone? Unless you have the extended service warranty they are going to tell you to buzz off and that they can't help you. They did it to me and they are going to do it to everyone that is not under warranty.
I'm saying that I'm not under warranty and I have already been assigned a reference by a Case Manager on the Senior Resolution Team. Now, as long as the dealer agrees with my damage analysis (which I'm currently working on making the appointment), I understood that they'll take care of it. Don't give up so easily, rise and be counted man! Peace.
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post #487 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 05:59 PM
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Savage,

I have done the same. Each and every one of us with an 05-06 TJ need to call CRYsler and have a case created on our behalf!!!

I called the 1-800-992-1997 number today and created a case with Emily. I explained that there are "Jeep enthusiast" websites on the "Internet" where people get together, organize and share information. I explained that there is a huge discussion of this issue being more wide spread than CRYsler claims. She had no arguments or comments and simply created a case. I asked for her name and requested the reference number. She explained that a case manager would be calling me back in 1 to 2 days. Easy as pie!

EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO THIS! WE NEED TO ORGANIZE AND FOLLOW THROUGH. CRYsler needs to fix this issue, either voluntarily, or through a class action lawsuit!!!

We also need to post a link to this thread, or create similar threads on other national and local forums to spread the word!
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post #488 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 07:51 PM
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I may have missed this in an earlier post but... do we know if the problem is specific to the TJ 4.0 I6 or is it happening in other vehicles?

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post #489 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RubiOR View Post
I may have missed this in an earlier post but... do we know if the problem is specific to the TJ 4.0 I6 or is it happening in other vehicles?
Its only the late 04-06/end of production of the TJ.

The issue is because in mid 04 they redesigned the cam position sensor for more resolution for what ever reason. The new style cps 04-06 is what the problem is confined to due to it being the only engine that is using this type of CPS assembly.

FOG

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post #490 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Its only the late 04-06/end of production of the TJ.

The issue is because in mid 04 they redesigned the cam position sensor for more resolution for what ever reason. The new style cps 04-06 is what the problem is confined to due to it being the only engine that is using this type of CPS assembly.

FOG
OK. I thought that was likely the case based on what I've read here but I didn't want to make any invalid assumptions. While I'm waiting for my backordered part to be delivered I may hit a couple of boneyards & see if I can find an older assembly to pull a gear from.

I watch this thread daily & I'm grateful to all of you who are doing the investigation that I'm not skilled enough to do. I will continue to keep my fingers crossed that you guys will find the smoking gun and we can have a permanent fix. Thanks ya'll.

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post #491 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Its only the late 04-06/end of production of the TJ.

The issue is because in mid 04 they redesigned the cam position sensor for more resolution for what ever reason. The new style cps 04-06 is what the problem is confined to due to it being the only engine that is using this type of CPS assembly.

FOG
It's actually just '05 and '06 - the cam sensor housing was redesigned to coincide with the changeover from the old JTEC powertrain control module to the NGCIII powertrain control module in 2005.

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post #492 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 09:28 PM
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I mentioned this on a Ford forum and didn't tell them what make/model it was from. First guy that replied guessed it was a Dodge truck because he's seen that before.

He didn't mention any more specifics, but it makes me wonder if that gear made it onto some Dodge trucks, even if they dont use the 4.0 OPD assembly.

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post #493 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 09:39 PM
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I remember reading a thread in Rubicon Owners Forum where it was stated that some Dodge trucks (with the 2.5) used this gear. I believe some older Cherokees were also mentioned in that thread as using the gear.

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post #494 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post

The hole you're referring to is the one with the roll pin in it, holding it to the shaft, right? When you talk about "slop" are you actually saying the gear moves up and down freely on the shaft or are you just talking about the gap above the gear?

With as close as the dimensions are that you're talking about, I assume you have to rotate the new hole around the shaft axis and line it up with a different tooth, because the dimensions are so close that the holes would overlap...
1. the slop im referring to is the slop above the gear.

2. I drilled my hole 90* out, because it is impossible to drill a 3/16" hole 0.015" above center of an existing 3/16" hole. I will have to find tdc and do all that ****.

Sucks, my first experience as a jeep owner and only a month in having to test all my mechanical and engineering skills just to find a band aid for a serious engine design flaw in what I thought would be the cream of the crop as far as TJ's go.

Last edited by anymanusa; 08-10-2010 at 10:21 PM.
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post #495 of 1825 Old 08-10-2010, 10:20 PM
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ok, yeah of course just move the housing.

So, redrill the hole about .060" lower than the original... (to move the gear up to match the stock). Re-install and rotate the housing to match the rotor.

Sounds easy enough.



Has the new OPDA (the backordered one) been revised with a new gear that won't wear out prematurely, or retrofitted with the pre-05 gear? Or is it just the same exact thing that will repeat the process?

Joe
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