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Unread 08-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #421
gunner87
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I have been following a thread in the Rubicon Owners Forum where the discussion is about the same thing.........premature failure of the OPDA. One dude went to a salvage yard and brought back 3 gears from different, older units (2 jeeps and 1 dodge truck, it with the 2.5 engine). He checked the hardness of the 3 older OPDA gears with his current bad one, and they all measured 27 RC hardness.

So if it's not the gear nor the bushings, what is the prob? I have 35K on my
'06 LJ. I am planning to pull my OPDA in a day or two, and if I have excessive wear it is going to a machine shop for modifications. Problem is, to fix the problem you got to know exactly what the problem is.

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Unread 08-07-2010, 07:24 PM   #422
BlackSheep
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I'm no expert, but IMHO, the gear relationship is off as they turn. What I mean is, that maybe the OPDA gear is at a bad angle so that in some places the gear may come close to binding (too much contact). Then as it turns it make less contact in other places. Like on Fogs. He had uneven wear, more wear on one side almost normal on the other. Or maybe, it could also be the cam gear some how is moving slightly.
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Unread 08-07-2010, 07:41 PM   #423
keithert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBuCon View Post
Back in 06, i bought a used X (don't tell me, i already know). Yellow, 5 sp. Fixed it up a little, spring lift, 21s, AE wheels, Hanson front bumper (STILL the best looking bumper out there i think). 4 KC lights. Had plans for a nice Warn, sliders, Hanson back bumper and tire carrier. You know the feeling.

Anyway, my first daughter came along. I was 42 at the time, you can do the math now. The jeep didn't fit into the DD, so i traded and bought a new Scion Xb. Again, don't laugh..it served its purpose wonderfully through my daughter and two years later, my first son. Always looked everytime a Jeep went by. All the tire still getting the Quad and 4WD catalogs. Always building that 'next jeep' ya know.

This winter my wife and i decided to get another jeep. Duing the 4 years i was jeep-less, i had narrowed down the models to exactly what i wanted: LJ, Rubicon, auto. Hard to would be great, soft is fine. Not much modification cause i wanted to do it myself. So you know the year models i was gunning for: 04,05 and 06.

In December i found what i wanted: 05 LJ Ruby, auto, hard top, 2" coil lift and brand new MTR's. The jeep had only 23K miles!!!. Red of course. Bought it the day i saw it. Was so excited, like a kid again.

Big plans followed: Hanson front and rear, maybe change to an OME lift, more lights (has a set of IPFs now), winch. All that stuff you still and think about. Sliders. Bigger tires, nicer rims. You understand.

Then i re-connected to this forum. I was a member way back when and when th yellow X sold, i quit lurking here and started looking at parental forum and kiddy things. Times change, so do your priorities. So now i sit here, half empty 12 pack. Or was it a 18 pack? Oh well, doesn't matter. I sit here and look out the window at my red ruby: right now, no problems. No pissed off monkeys, no error codes. Not even the first symptom. Although it has developed a 'almost die sometimes' idle (TB cleaner awaits in the garage). Now all my thoughts of Hanson and Warn have been ambushed by thoughts of trading it off or saying a prayer everytime i crank it up. And WTF does Shystler do? Quit making the ONE part that I (and all of you) need to restore our confidence in the Jeep brand.

I wonder if the guy who bought my Xb would want to trade? Think i'll cal him...

JoBuCon
I'm in a similar position to yours. After owning a 98 SE and a few Trackers got the Jeep I really wanted. Since this is my dream Jeep I'm thinking that if the engines goes outside of warranty I'll just have to pony up the $4k or so to get a new engine. With the overall cost of a Jeep it's not that much more. But I'll fully have the issues looked into under my warranty before I get to that point.
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Unread 08-07-2010, 08:06 PM   #424
piperpilot3tk
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I too am going to am going to do a Rockwell hardness test with my old '06 gear and '96 gear when I get a break at work. I KNOW that the shaft is WAY too soft as evidenced by the rounded corners of the oil pump drive tab and the fact that it took five minutes and some 600 grit silicon carbide paper to hand polish out all the scoring that was on my shaft. As I was inspecting the bushings in my old '96 distributor with a 10X magnifying glass I found out they are sintered metal busings (sometimes called by thier trade name.. oillite busings). This type of design is still inferior to having an engine oil lubricated upper bushing with an oil seal at the top of the bushing. I assume the bushings in my '06 CPS assembly are the same but I would have to take it back apart to check them and make sure they are sintered metal as well. So here is my theory, I think the pre '05 4.0 distributors and CPS assemblies survived because the shafts were hard enough that the oil impregnated sintered metal bushings were slightly softer than the shaft, and therefore the bushings would wear slightly and the shaft would not bind up, chatter and become scored. The '05 and '06 assemblies are wearing out the camshaft and CPS gears because the soft drive shaft is becoming scored and chattering/binding, not because the gear is too soft. If the gear was way too soft than we would not be seeing the hardened steel cam gears worn like they are. The correct distrubitor gear to run in a small block Chevy with a steel roller cam is a bronze alloy gear, and it too drives an oil pump and does not wear out in ten to thirty thousand miles. Furthermore I think I have figured out why there is a plugged passage adjacent to the upper bushing on the 4.0 distributors and CPS assemblies. When I removed the plugs on both the '96 distributor and '06 CPS the cavity leading to the sintered metal bushing was packed with an oil impregnated paper or cotton like material. This oil impregnated material would supply some long term lubrication to the sintered bearing, and this would make sense why the passage dead ends at the bearing and does not actually connect to the shaft bore. I think that the only real long term solution is to have the shaft replaced with one of the correct hardness and replace the worn gear, and depending on condition, the camshaft as well. I do feel however that there is a strong possibility that replacing the gear, polishing the scoring off of the shaft, installing an 8mm zerk fitting and periodically lubing the assembly with synthetic grease will work for many thousands of mile if not permanently. I do have one more good idea how to solve this problem....we ALL should bombard the MSD people with requests to make some new aftermarket CPS housing assemblies. If they can make the finest distributors in the world then they should have no problem making a simple little part like this one, you could buy a new housing assembly from them and install your sensor and drive off into the sunset happily ever after!!
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Unread 08-07-2010, 08:59 PM   #425
bonza
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gunner has determined that old and new CPS drive gears are 27Rc. that isnt particularly hard, but it shouldnt have to be as the gear only has to spin the CPS target wheel and the oil pump. the gears that drive the oil pump on my motorcycle are made of plastic. as long as the teeth are well lubricated and there is no undue strain on them that breaks the oil film, it should not be a problem

so there must be some binding that is creating enormous resistance to the gear drive in order to wear it out.

many have mentioned squealing CPS assemblies and found the top bush to be the culprit, and the installation of a grease fitting seems a logical answer.

could it also be a faulty oil pump binding up thats causing the worn gear problem?

I inspected my OPDA a few months back when first heard about this problem and everything looked OK.
today I removed the CPS plastic cap and checked the backlash by rocking the target wheel to and fro. it moves less than 1/16" so no change since last inspection. I also measured the end thrust with a dial indicator and the target wheel moves up and down 0.025". to me that would be acceptable to have that much movement.
no sign of binding evident while doing this simple test, thankfully. I will be removing the entire assy for a better look during the next service. am now over 80,000 Kms (50,000 miles)

I also observed that there was some oily moisture below the target wheel on the CPS housing. this indicates lube is present in the top bearing bush

as far as the OPDA drive tang having worn corners, so did mine when I checked it last time. to me thats normal as the tang has to fit into a slot within the oil pump. in order for it to fit there would have to be some clearance and I guess 0.010" would be a reasonable fit. therefore the tang will only drive on the corners when it is turning the oil pump drive slot, until such time it beds in and a flat area of about 1/16" wide is worn on the corners of the tang and the slot

those who are experiencing pinon wear. what oil and grade are you using? it would be interesting to see if there is some correlation there
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Unread 08-07-2010, 09:34 PM   #426
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piperpilot3tk View Post
This oil impregnated material would supply some long term lubrication to the sintered bearing, and this would make sense why the passage dead ends at the bearing and does not actually connect to the shaft bore. !

This brings up an interesting question. What would happen if we took a 1/16 or 1/8" drill bit and drilled though the bushing in the bottom of the dead end grease passage.

By doing this we could deliver grease directly into the bore which would quickly travel up and down the upper bushing and shaft.

Is there any negative issues I'm not seeing with drilling a small hole for direct bore lubrication ??


FOG
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Unread 08-08-2010, 12:21 AM   #427
tshively
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Quote:
and a catastrophic lifter failure:

Wow! That had to be making some bad noise? I changed my lifters out as well but none of them showed that much wear. I am begining to think that the last couple years of the 4.0 are the worst?
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Unread 08-08-2010, 06:46 AM   #428
Sweeney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
This brings up an interesting question. What would happen if we took a 1/16 or 1/8" drill bit and drilled though the bushing in the bottom of the dead end grease passage.

By doing this we could deliver grease directly into the bore which would quickly travel up and down the upper bushing and shaft.

Is there any negative issues I'm not seeing with drilling a small hole for direct bore lubrication ??


FOG
My guess is that these are sintered bushings. My plan this morning is to pop the cap off the CPS and add a few drops of gear oil to the top of the bushing to 'recharge' the bushing.

Fog, drilling the hole wouldn't hurt at all. My only concern with with greasing an 'oillite' bushing is that the filler material of the grease may clog the pores of the bushing.
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Unread 08-08-2010, 08:41 AM   #429
piperpilot3tk
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I drilled a #40 hole through my bushing already so that grease does go directly to the shaft bore. I deburred the inside and pumped it full of SHL-100 Mobil 1 grease. I also thought about filling it with turbine engine oil but now that I have already drilled a hole in the bushing grese is probably a better option.

Quote:
as far as the OPDA drive tang having worn corners, so did mine when I checked it last time. to me thats normal as the tang has to fit into a slot within the oil pump. in order for it to fit there would have to be some clearance and I guess 0.010" would be a reasonable fit. therefore the tang will only drive on the corners when it is turning the oil pump drive slot, until such time it beds in and a flat area of about 1/16" wide is worn on the corners of the tang and the slot
Bonza, I could not disagree more. The oil pump drive tabs on the shaft from my old '96 distributor shows no wear, and as I have said multiple times , the old shaft is MUCH harder than the one from my '06 CPS.

Quote:
gunner has determined that old and new CPS drive gears are 27Rc. that isnt particularly hard, but it shouldnt have to be as the gear only has to spin the CPS target wheel and the oil pump. the gears that drive the oil pump on my motorcycle are made of plastic. as long as the teeth are well lubricated and there is no undue strain on them that breaks the oil film, it should not be a problem
Bonza, the oil pump on your motorcycle may not require much torque to turn it, but have you ever built an automotive engine and pre-oiled it before stating the engine for the first time? The process goes like this: You remove the distributor and install the priming shaft, which looks like the bottom end of a regular distributor shaft with the oil pump drive tab but without the gear, except it has a shaft extension sticking out the top end to attach a drill motor to turn the oil pump. You attach a 1/2" drill to the shaft (a 3/8" drill will barely turn it) and HANG ON VERY TIGHT before you hit the trigger! It take a lot of torque to turn an automotive engine oil pump!
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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:36 AM   #430
jeffjeep1
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I've started following this thread too. I had a beautiful 2002 Sport modded the way I wanted, but ..... The lust came along and I had to have a 2005 LJ Rubi in March 2010 with 22K miles (now 27K). No CPS issues at this time that I know of. Called a nearby J dealership on Aug 6 (service manager that I trust), he told me he has no knowledge of this issue, only had 2 jeeps with a CPS issue. I want to believe him, but ...

I have just put together a spreadsheet with 2000 - 2006 part numbers below:
Year Illustration No. Part No. Engine Description

2000 2 4897 023AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
-30 5083 881AA ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP

2001 2 4897 023AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
-30 5083 881AA ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP

2002 2 4897 023AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
3 #53010 615AA ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP

2003 2 4897 023AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
3 53010 615AA ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUM


2004 2 4897 023AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
3 53010 615AA ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP

2005 2 5149034AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
5 53010624AC ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP
6 53010625AA ER0 CAP, Protective

2006 2 5149034AA ER0 SENSOR, Camshaft
5 53010624AC ER0 DRIVE, OIL PUMP
6 53010625AA ER0 CAP, Protective

- Non illus part
# New Part No.
I also checked my 2002 AND 2005 FSM. CPS Sensors connect the same way. 3 wires. Ground, +5 volts, PCM (but different PCM term points). Note in 2004 the CPS sensor is the same as a 2000 thru 2004, but in 2004 J went to a 1 piece PCM/Trans control module. I suspect the CPS ouput is unchanged, 2000 to 2006, may be physically different to fit new drive.
Same sensor part number 2000 to 2004. Oil pump drive assy changed numbers in 2002, 2000/2001 drive part number supercedes to 2002 number. Camshaft part no. is unchanged 2000 thru 2006 53010448AA, and is still a valid number.
Anybody tried to install a 2002/3/4 Drive assy with an old or new sensor in a 2005/2006?
Closer look at FSM 2002/2005 indicates sensor is probably hugely different. Will the sensor fit an early drive assy?
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Last edited by jeffjeep1; 08-08-2010 at 10:43 AM.. Reason: update
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Unread 08-08-2010, 02:15 PM   #431
Savage1969
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I stumbled upon this thread late last night and read every post, got paranoid not getting hardly a wink of sleep, and pulled my CPS this morning. This is on a 2006 TJ with less than 21K miles, build date 12/05, engine stamp 512MX07. Saying this sucks for all of us is an enormous understatement. The cam gear seems to be worn equally to boot.

I'm starting to seriously doubt there is a single CPS of this style on the road that's not effected. How long can DM hide from this issue? For what it's worth, I intend to make sure my receptionist has nothing else to do for the next 3 days but make the calls to every dealer service manager in south Texas. Honestly, our issues will likely never be covered or repaired correctly until enough pissed TJ'ers turn up the heat with DM via local dealerships.







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Unread 08-08-2010, 02:22 PM   #432
anymanusa
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^^^yeah, I'm under the impression that every single '05 and '06 is effed up too. I'm also under the impression that we do not know the cause. There are some decent theories, but the hardness verification of the gear done in a few earlier posts shot the most credible ones out of the water. The hardness of the cps shaft needs to be checked next. I'm gonna put another gear on, and hope my camshaft can live on for now, but I'm also going to be changing my oil to a better oil.

More smart minds are needed to work this over and figure out what the cause truly is. I'm thinking that their is too much play vertically in the cps shaft, and when it spins, it moves up, causing the gears to mesh unusually. Maybe someone has said this already, and I missed it. That's the best explanation I can come up with right now.

When I install the new gear this week, I'm going to try and find a way to reduce the up/down play of the gear relative to the shaft and then check wear patterns after hundreds, and then thousands of miles.
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Unread 08-08-2010, 02:26 PM   #433
jkp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage1969 View Post
I stumbled upon this thread late last night and read every post, got paranoid not getting hardly a wink of sleep, and pulled my CPS this morning. This is on a 2006 TJ with less than 21K miles, build date 12/05, engine stamp 512MX07. Saying this sucks for all of us is an enormous understatement. The cam gear seems to be worn equally to boot.

I'm starting to seriously doubt there is a single CPS of this style on the road that's not effected. How long can DM hide from this issue? For what it's worth, I intend to make sure my receptionist has nothing else to do for the next 3 days but make the calls to every dealer service manager in south Texas. Honestly, our issues will likely never be covered or repaired correctly until enough pissed TJ'ers turn up the heat with DM via local dealerships.







Is yours hard to turn, indicating bushing issues?
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Unread 08-08-2010, 02:30 PM   #434
anymanusa
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Originally Posted by jkp View Post
Is yours hard to turn, indicating bushing issues?
I really think the bushing stuff is symptomatic of the shaft play. I don't have any bushing problems, but I have the wear. I'm going to try and space between the hardened disc right above the gear, and the cps housing, and take the up/down movement to a very minimal number. i'll look it over and study a little before I decide what number.:shrug:
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Unread 08-08-2010, 02:52 PM   #435
jkp
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
I really think the bushing stuff is symptomatic of the shaft play. I don't have any bushing problems, but I have the wear. I'm going to try and space between the hardened disc right above the gear, and the cps housing, and take the up/down movement to a very minimal number. i'll look it over and study a little before I decide what number.:shrug:
I compared the rotational and up/down movement on my '06 with about 59K to my '92 with 240K, and they are about the same. Replaced the distributor on the '92 at around 220K, and the gear showed very little wear. Only replaced it because it was cheaper to replace the whole distributor than just the cam sensor.
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