Chrysler is paying to install a new cam (2005/2006 owners should read this) - Page 26 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 08-05-2010, 07:45 PM   #376
anymanusa
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wait, now I'm totally confused. Does a little wear on this gear actually cause these extreme engine running problems?? My jeep is bucking and stuttering, it just doesn't seem like that would be enough wear to cause this.

Also, the gear isn't hard enough?? Why is the camshaft wearing also then? Is it not hard enough either? The camshaft doesn't seem to be worn as badly as the gear.

And on the 'bushing' on top that seems to be getting blamed for having improper lubrication,... I have to sign of wear in this area, my device spins freely, no scoring whatsoever. I don't think I have any 'bushing' problem.

What do you think?

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Unread 08-05-2010, 07:50 PM   #377
anymanusa
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oh yeah, also, when is a mod going to change the thread title to reflect how $h!tty Chrysler is being about this?

Something like "Chrysler is NOT paying for a serious design defect in thousands of Jeep Wranglers"...

That might even help the cause for a recall.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 07:55 PM   #378
Unlimitedlou
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I think the wear is caused by the weakest link. Be it the top bushing, or the bottom gear. I think a final fix to this problem would be: an aftermarket gear (if your gear is worn), or a new top oil impregnated bushing (with a zerk fitting to grease the upper bushing). I plan on pulling my drive and installing a zerk fitting at the first sign of wear. So far, as the machinist told me (with my skepticism) the bushing he installed would work fine.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 07:59 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
That might even help the cause for a recall.
Recalls are generally only issued for safety (i.e. a ball joint fails and the tire flies off the vehicle at speed) or emissions issues (i.e. the engine runs too rich due to a faulty O2 sensor). They do not issue recalls for concerns that don't fall into one of those two camps.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:03 PM   #380
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
wait, now I'm totally confused. Does a little wear on this gear actually cause these extreme engine running problems?? My jeep is bucking and stuttering, it just doesn't seem like that would be enough wear to cause this.

Also, the gear isn't hard enough?? Why is the camshaft wearing also then? Is it not hard enough either? The camshaft doesn't seem to be worn as badly as the gear.

And on the 'bushing' on top that seems to be getting blamed for having improper lubrication,... I have to sign of wear in this area, my device spins freely, no scoring whatsoever. I don't think I have any 'bushing' problem.

What do you think?

Repeated myself over and over is killing my rheumatoid arthritis hands. Thank god for painkillers, which are available in 5,7.5, and 10mg for those really long and detailed Jeep forum threads

As I discussed back a page or three a little gear wear will cause the CPS sensor to give a signal that is out of sync with the crank sensor.

As far as the wear goes, what happens is the soft CPS gear starts to wear and the clearance opens up between its teeth and the camshaft gears teeth. This allows the camshaft gear teeth to engage the CPS gears teeth at an angle which wears down the edges of the cam gear teeth.

This cycle continues till either the computer throws a out of sync code or the gears totally strip and you loose oil pressure.

There is no doubt the upper bearing has issue, just ask anyone here that has heard the howler monkeys under their hood. There are those that have the bushing problem and those who will.

FOG
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:11 PM   #381
Volusiaguy
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Originally Posted by Unlimitedlou View Post
There have been absolutely zero in stock for some time now. There are 7 at local dealers in "off road" status. That means the dealer has Jeeps sitting in their lot that customers can not drive. As of last week, there are over 250 drives on back order with none in production and no parts in production. About 6 weeks ago there was 1 in Hawaii and I tried to get it. All of a sudden it was gone and there have been no more on the dealer parts locator since then.
We're talking about the Repair/Replacement package sent out by Chrysler. There are many of them out there. I got one yesterday and another member has one coming tomorrow. Go back and read Option #2 in my longer post (#360).
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:18 PM   #382
Unlimitedlou
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I even went as far as complaining to the Better Business Bureau. Here is the response I received:

I cannot figure out how to upload the message. Basically, it says that unless I give Chrysler my money to order the part, I am SOL in ordering the part which is not in production.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:25 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Volusiaguy View Post
We're talking about the Repair/Replacement package sent out by Chrysler. There are many of them out there. I got one yesterday and another member has one coming tomorrow. Go back and read Option #2 in my longer post (#360).
I am glad you found a repair kit (temporary). It will not fix your long term problems. There is more than one problem with this set-up. I have been dealing with this problem for several months and there are no long term fixes.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:27 PM   #384
bonza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anymanusa View Post
wait, now I'm totally confused. Does a little wear on this gear actually cause these extreme engine running problems?? My jeep is bucking and stuttering, it just doesn't seem like that would be enough wear to cause this.

Also, the gear isn't hard enough?? Why is the camshaft wearing also then? Is it not hard enough either? The camshaft doesn't seem to be worn as badly as the gear.

And on the 'bushing' on top that seems to be getting blamed for having improper lubrication,... I have to sign of wear in this area, my device spins freely, no scoring whatsoever. I don't think I have any 'bushing' problem.

What do you think?
if your unit spins freely and there is no lateral movement then I would say the bushing/bearing is ok. you can buy a new gear from some place listed a few posts back.

your heep maybe running lousy due to some other problem, so you better scan it and see if there are any codes.

also when you refitted the CPS it may have not be installed exactly back into its correct location.

there was a post way back about getting #1 cylinder on the compression stroke and aligning timeing marks on the crank then using an allen key in the CPS and align the target wheel to the OPDA, sticking your tongue out of the left corner of your mouth while balancing a hard boiled egg in a spoon hanging out of your **s, and then the unit slips back in . probably best to look back and find that procedure
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:38 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by bonza View Post
if your unit spins freely and there is no lateral movement then I would say the bushing/bearing is ok. you can buy a new gear from some place listed a few posts back.
Your bushing may be OK now, but long term its not going to hold up. You have a steel bushing on a steel shaft spinning 2-3,000 RPM or more in a high heat environment. What ever grease you put in there isn't going to last long term. Your either going to have to dismantle it every 3-5K miles and re-grease it or fit it with a zerk.

And speaking of grease guns don't be like this guy. He got the bright idea to use his grease gun for non-approved application. Grease-gun injury


FOG
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:41 PM   #386
bonza
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
There is no doubt the upper bearing has issue, just ask anyone here that has heard the howler monkeys under their hood. There are those that have the bushing problem and those who will.

FOG
The bushing/bearing problem is not unique to this model CPS.

I know of at least three earlier (99-04) CPS that had the top bushing worn out. but that was on 100,000 miles plus engines. one of the guys involved dismantled it and made a new bushing to suit. that was a couple of years back and his is still going strong
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:53 PM   #387
Unlimitedlou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonza View Post
The bushing/bearing problem is not unique to this model CPS.

I know of at least three earlier (99-04) CPS that had the top bushing worn out. but that was on 100,000 miles plus engines. one of the guys involved dismantled it and made a new bushing to suit. that was a couple of years back and his is still going strong
You are probably right. But, in 04 the brilliant Chrysler guys went with a Mercedes design and ECM programming. This was the curse to the longevity of the 4.0. The CPS was redesigned in an inferior design.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 08:56 PM   #388
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonza View Post
The bushing/bearing problem is not unique to this model CPS.

I know of at least three earlier (99-04) CPS that had the top bushing worn out. but that was on 100,000 miles plus engines. one of the guys involved dismantled it and made a new bushing to suit. that was a couple of years back and his is still going strong
I agree there is something different with the 99-04 CPS assemblies. One thing I've noticed and I believe was pointed out by someone else is that in the 04-06 CPS shafts show oil pump wear, even the low mileage CPS assemblies like on my 06LJ.

The shafts of the 99-04 CPS don't have wear marks on the leading edges of the oil pump slot. This leads me to believe that the shafts on the 99-04 are much harder than the 04-06 cps shaft.

And that's why the nearly same design of the 99-04 CPS last so much longer than the 04-06.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimitedlou View Post
You are probably right. But, in 04 the brilliant Chrysler guys went with a Mercedes design and ECM programming. This was the curse to the longevity of the 4.0. The CPS was redesigned in an inferior design.
Was anything gained by the new ECM and programming? I know with the new style CPS they get more resolution as to where the camshaft is at any given moment. Does this help emissions or anything else?



On a side note if my logic is off, I'm restating what anyone else has said or just being coarse (as my wife is telling me) I apologize. My rheumatoid arthritis has decided to attack my ribs and sternum which made it rather hard to breath. So they pumped me full of steroids and immunosuppressants to stop the RA and take down the swelling. Only problem is they are giving me a bad case of brain fog (no pun intended).


FOG
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Last edited by TheFog; 08-05-2010 at 09:08 PM..
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Unread 08-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #389
Anthyd
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I pulled mine on my 06 with 50,000 miles it was wore pretty bad. I called the dealership to order a new assembly and the parts guy told me they have 239 on back order with no ship date and no contract from a supplier. So I just fixed the problem myself and traded it on a 2010 Taco 4x4 reg. cab. problem solved.
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Unread 08-05-2010, 10:57 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
And speaking of grease guns don't be like this guy. He got the bright idea to use his grease gun for non-approved application. Grease-gun injury


Damn-that hurt me just reading it.
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